Hi scoundrels !
I have a few questions about Load.
1) How often does it come up in your games ? Do you get your PCs in trouble because they look like mules or scoundrels every score ?
2) Do your players ever feel “punished” or at least limited by their initial Load choice ? For example, if someone chose to go “light” but really need to use an item, what do you do? Or, on the other end, if they chose to go heavy, got in trouble in social scenes specifically because of their load, but in the end didn’t use more than 3 items, how did they feel about it ?
3) Do you allow your players to change their load mid-score ? For example, if they get rid of an armor they already used up, or by plundering an armory for a couple of pistols ?
Thanks in advance !
I haven’t played enough yet to answer 1 or 2 for sure, but for 2 I’d say: that’s part of player skill. You knew the options and you made a choice. Live with it. Make different choices in the future if you don’t like it.
For 3 I’d say: fiction first. Is there any reason in the story you wouldn’t be able to ditch armor partway through a score? Presumably there usually isn’t. Throwing away heavy stuff when you need to run is pretty common in stories. So sure, you can do it.
Is that an exploit? I don’t know. Probably not? What advantage does a scoundrel get by ditching their armor, maybe a chance to avoid notice in a crowd or run faster or something? But, now it is established in the fiction that they are definitely not wearing armor, and also that they abandoned personal goods someplace. It’s a crowded city, maybe there’s a reason the Spirit Wardens would like to get hold of personal items. Or if they do end up in another fight and you’re feeling like they need consequences, you can make things more Desperate, or choose more serious consequences because they took off their armor.
When we roll engagement, we select load. When we go out to downtime, we select load (because inevitably they can get into a fight during taking and meetings).
The flexibility to select weapons and items at any time doesn’t seem to restrict them too much. Don’t forget italicized items are zero load.
For restocking or changing load – if it makes sense on the fiction, I would allow it.
RE: armour, keep in mind that while the armour is mechanically used up, as far as the character is concerned it’s probably still a perfectly usable and possibly expensive piece of armour. If the character desperately needs to swim along a canal to escape pursuit it makes perfect sense to drop as much weight as possible. If the players are constantly discarding armour the second they’ve used up the boxes, things are getting silly.
1) It hasn’t come up often, but if they ever take normal or heavy load I always remind them that they look like they’re about to get up to some shit, and that usually comes up in the engagement roll if they don’t roll well. Perhaps the Bluecoats spot them as they get to their score, or I start a clock for “Bluecoats Arrive” because someone saw them armed to the teeth and called the fuzz.
2) In my experience this creates great tension before a score. Are the crew infiltrating a fancy ball? If so the Hound isn’t going to be able to bring her favourite set of pistols and have room for much else. Are they going to seize the Lampblacks territory by force? If so maybe the Slide decides to have some extra pistols with them to give to the Hound so she doesn’t need to worry about reloading. It helps define the characters as much as their special abilities.
It should feel a little bit limiting, because whenever a character runs out of load, that’s a great excuse for an improvising scene.
Also, there are plenty of crew upgrades that give you free load of certain items if the players find that they always need specific items during their score. I ran a crew of cultists that picked up the Bravos Rigging upgrade to get free armour because the Leech was always blowing stuff up.
3) Sort of? Load defines what you come into the score with. If you shed your used-up armour, that doesn’t mean you can now decide to have more pistols or gadgets than your load would have previously allow (except perhaps with a flashback). Items you pick up during your score can count towards load if you think it follows from the fiction. If the Slide picks up a bunch of pistols from the Imperial Armory, fictionally they’ll have heavy load and be slower and more noticeable, but I wouldn’t say the pistols take up a load spot because that should always be a kind of black box that they can produce anything from as fits the fiction.
Also, remind the players that long term projects and assets exist for this sort of thing. If the Hound is tired of not having enough room for their fancy rifle, maybe they can find a Leech to create a special collapsible gun that only takes 1 load instead of 2.
Hope this helps!
1) Most games I’ve seen, the crew takes “Rigging” early, and some characters even take the Cuttrrs’ “Mule” special ability. This makes Light Load 5-7 items! The few times I’ve seen a player take Normal Load (never seen a PC take Heavy) the GM didn’t bring it up.
2) Even with a 5 item Light Load, I see players debating if they want to use Armor or a resistance roll. If the fiction requires an item (Whisper’s Lightning Hook), but the Whisper has no load left, you should let the players offer a work around (flashback).
3) Sure.
If a PC needs a (reasonable) item and doesn’t have Load left, I’d have no problem as GM letting them take a flashback to get it. If we’d established that they weren’t carrying it earlier in the fiction (eg, because their Light Load had been relevant to a roll, or just because they’re at a formal ball and we know they’re not loaded for bear), then the flashback would have to explain how they arranged to have it now. “Just like I planned it!”
I think if you made Load less restrictive, then you’d have to compensate Cutters with a new special ability to replace Mule.
Arne Jamtgaard If you’re replying to me, the Mule ability doesn’t cost Stress. Flashbacks do, require GM agreement, and may require an Action roll for success. Also, one of the examples in the book is explicitly about using a flashback to arrange for a hidden pistol for the character to get later (p 132).
colin roald It was more a general observation on how the original questions were heading.
In my own game, my players tend to be pretty savvy about the restrictions of Load. They also have their preferences. The Slide frequently goes Light because she’s out socializing. The Cutter often goes Medium but can carry off that she’s a bodyguard of sorts. The Whisper’s a former noble and doesn’t like to burden himself so he often goes Light.
Depending on the Load they pick, the PCs usually figure where they should be during a Score. The Leech and the Cutter go Medium or Heavy during a robbery and spend plenty of time hiding in sewers and alleys out of sight. The Slide and the Lurk go Light because they expect to be in the limelight or sneaking around quietly. Basically, it hasn’t been a problem in my game thus far because the players seem to be aware of what the different Load levels “look” like.
I (we) also feel that the limits in how much a character can carry are frequently balanced by the fact that they don’t have to worry about picking the gear ahead of time. The gear they have is always what they need at the time. This has taken a little bit of work because all players try to plan ahead a bit, but I haven’t really had any issues with folks when they mark their last Load box.
As to your last, I don’t think I’d allow PCs to change Load in the middle of a Score – that’s sort of the mechanical point. Too fast and loose and it stops being a limitation or a challenge. However, if there’s a perfectly fiction-friendly reason for them to acquire something useful – either through your own example of snagging a pistol from an armory or flashing back to a contact setting something aside for them – I might be willing to allow that. I’d personally add to the Stress cost of a Flashback to balance the countering the Load restriction. But if the fiction works, go for it. In one of my group’s recent Scores, the Slide paid max Stress for a Flashback to have planted her fine disguise kit for the Whisper to use, allowing the Whisper to pass himself off as a Ironhook Prison guard. For me, it made sense in the fiction so I went with it. The Slide marked off Stress and Load boxes so I felt the mechanics were satisfied.
Long-winded story short — the mechanical restrictions are there to add drama and encourage cleverness so I don’t advise messing with them too much. But the game is fiction-first so if the characters figure out a narrative advantage, go with it.
Re-reading your question 3, I’d say that Load is specifically the number of items you’re saying you had with you at the start of the score. Much like the engagement roll, it describe a moment in time. Once you start narrating, things can change, and that’s okay.
It’s okay if the rules are a little loose, because if the characters start doing things that seem abusive, you just ask: “why would someone not do that in real life?” Then apply that consequence, because it’s your job to make Doskvol seem real.
I’ve been on scores where I decided to go Light because I was expecting to have to carry lots of stuff away from the job. We were also tracking load to see how much leeway we had to carry loot. If you went in Heavy, you’re already near maximum Load, so you can’t carry loot.
Arne Jamtgaard I’d never thought about loot, is there anywhere in the book where they give suggested load figures for amounts of coin. I had a quick look but can’t find anything like that ?
Jay Tee Page 42: “One unit of coin in silver pieces or other bulk currency takes up one item slot for your load when carried.”
Thanks, Alice Southey !
Thanks everyone for your in-depth answers ! 🙂
We have a largeish group, and they have Rigging, so honestly this barely comes up. But if the players were maxed out and needed something else mid-score, I would let them get it via flashback. Load is what they carried in on their persons, not what they might have stashed somewhere ahead of time. (At least that’s how I’d rule it at the table; the rules might ay otherwise.)