Hello.
I’m going to start a game since it’s great but I have several questions.
1. Load. Is there any guidance for it? I assume it lowers situation/effect for some sneaky actions like some actions under Prowl, Finesse, Sway (to persuade a Bluecoat that you’re up to no bad), Hunt, nearly all Consort (unless you’re dealing with some savages or imposing bodyguards). But are there more specific hints?
2. Free play. What’s it for? From goo.gl/f6vVfA I’ve noticed that free play is dangerous with failures meaning harm, stress, heat and whatever while downtime means success anyway with little to no negative consequences. But still free play doesn’t have thorough mechanics, so is it just stand-in to have customary TRPG “free form roleplaying” intact so people wouldn’t say “it’s not a TRPG anymore”?
3. Gathering information. Is there any use for it besides bonuses for an engagement roll. It seems it doesn’t have intrinsic costs like spending Coin for effect (bribes) or beating questions out of people (taking Heat). So what are caveats in it for freeplay and score (and can it be used at score at all)?
Thanks in advance for help.
1. Reduced effect or worse position, pretty much. No specific guidelines.
2. Free play mechanically works the same way as a score, at least as far as actions, effect and position, teamwork, consequences, and so on. Free play is the catch-all for anything that occurs outside downtime and outside a score.
3. It’s for uh… gathering information. Improving the engagement roll is certainly one aspect, but there are some situations where your PCs shouldn’t even be able to start a score without some info — an assassination target who’s rarely seen in public, for example. Or a shipment of goods with an unknown route. Also, sometimes players will be curious about something that has nothing to do with a score — maybe one of your players in interested in demon pacts and wants to make a connection with an occultist.
Gathering info doesn’t have a cost because downtime actions don’t have consequences. You can take actions during scores or free play that are intended to get information, but they’ll have effect and position and can have consequences.
1. That’s sad. I’d like the system to have guidelines for all of its mechanics. Otherwise, why do you bring that mechanics at all?
2. Yeah, I think the same. Still it’s kind of dim territory.
3. Well, the example on p.36 and table on p.37 explicitly suggest no consequences on 1-3 for actually bullying some dealer who works for Red Sashes, just information, and “GM answers honestly”. So, basically gathering information is free of price, consequences and entanglements. Then why is it needed at all?
1. As Adam Bloom said: those ARE the rules guidelines for load (because they’re the system guidelines for almost everything). If heavy Load is making an action roll more dangerous (say, running across a moving bridge), you can escalate the Position (Risky, Desperate). If it’s limiting the actual effort (like, convincing someone that you’re not looking for trouble) you can give a lessened effect based on potency. Or you could both, of course.
2. Downtime activities presume time, patience and little risk. But a scoundrel doesn’t have much occasions to have them (unless they pay for it, with money or reputation). Freeform play is used:
a) When you’re doing something which is not covered by a Downtime Activity.
b) When you want to do something in Downtime but you don’t have free Activities to use.
Freeform play needs to be there, because this is an rpg, not a tabletop game, so it needs to give freedom to shape the story.
3. Gather Information gives you Information based on Effect. The way you determine that Effect depend on the type of roll: you can call for an Action Roll if you think that there’s some kind of interesting risk or you could simply call for a Fortune Roll (which basically is a roll to determine just an Effect, without particular Consequences).
1. It’s a fiction-first rule, like many in the game. I don’t understand the question of “why have it” — when the players declare a heavy load, that is a sign to you to modify effect and position, which are the core of the action resolution.
2. It’s vague, but necessary. Blades has some built-in pacing, but is not strictly paced like Mouse Guard or Torchbearer. Codifying free play adds flexibility.
3. Gathering information isn’t free of cost — it costs a downtime actions. Downtime actions are valuable. The reason it’s free of consequences is because it’s a downtime action.
Adam Bloom if I’m not mistaken, Gathering Information was removed from Downtime Activities. Only long investigation (which are handled as Long Term Projects) necessitate of a Downtime Activity. Quick Gathering Information (in Downtime or during Score) is now based on the Effect of an Action or Fortune Roll.
1: To add to what people have been saying declaring load limits how much a player has on them. Once you have declared you are carying items equal to your load, thats it. Thats all your character has on them. It also determines how obvious you are to people on the street. Someone at light load can easily go unnoticed, medium load, you are obviously packing heat but no more so than would be expected in some place like Crows Foot. Heavy you are very obviously armed and looking for a fight. So if you are trying to bluff your way past some guards for example, its not really gonna happen without a desperate, limited effect roll. Load does cause the other mechanics to trigger, as well as being a very important fictional element in the game.
2: I think the others have hit the nail on the head with this one. Its just a generic term to give name to the times when you are not doing a score, or not actively doing downtime actions.
3: The roll determines the quality of information you get. A 1-3 will be very limited information, A 4-5 will be decent information. A 6 is excellent information. So the consequence is little to no information gained by the roll. Some actions require information be gathered such as attempting to seize a claim not immediately connected on your Claims Roadmap. (Page 47) It can also give you better position for your engagement roll. Also it might reveal a method of approach previously unknown to the players. If you dont know where someone that you are looking for is, you gather information. Or you are attempting to discover what the needed element to carry out a plan type is. (Assault=Point of Attack, Stealth=Entry Point, Transport= Route, ect) As pointed out it no longer takes a downtime action to Gather Information, but that does not mean it is free. It costs position and effect. Which are the foundation on which much of Blades is built.
1. The question is why doesn’t this have rules. We have rules for scale, quality, tier, effect, magnitude of weird. But load has rules for determining load but not applying it.
2. I understand that it’s there. But still rules for free play are vague and lack clarity.
3. I read all the rules about tham, thanks. And information gathering are the less riskiest rolls of all. By default they cost neither position, nor downtime. They aren’t risky either. So why would we use them? We can invent new and new contacts until we get it. Of course GM can limit that. Then why are these rules there at all?
Overall, these three points seem to be artificial constructs not polished from a prototype. I like the system in other aspects and I enjoy the setting and idea very much. But necessity to build houserules from the very beginning is very frustrating.
1. You don’t have a hard rule on how to apply the effects of load because it depends on fictional position (which is pretty much the whole driving force behind BitD system): you have to choose when and how to apply effect factors and action positions based on the fiction.
2. I really don’t understand what kind of hard rules you expect for free play… it uses the same rules that you would use during a score, only in downtime: that’s it.
3. Gathering information table on pag. 37 says “Ask a question and make an action roll or a fortune roll…”
If the way the PC is gathering information doesn’t imply risk, go for a Fortune Roll (which tells you just the effect).
If the way the PC is gathering information implies risk, go for an Action Roll (Controlled/Risky/Desperate).
Gathering information can have consequences, regardless of doing it during a score or in free play.
1. I mean, Load has extensive list of rules. It is on character playbooks for items, it has upgrades on character and crew playbooks, it has extensive mechanics under it. But then when you need to use it, there’re no rules or even guidelines.
2. So why do we have Score and Free play mechanics simultaneously at all? And vice versa, what can players get with free play mechanics? I mean only free play mechanics, not actual role playing or downtime. Is it supposed to use mechanics at all?
3. I mean, if all information is clear and players just have to ask questions, then it’s either pixel hunting or no mechanics free play. If information actually gives some bonuses, so let’s see them.
And this all is with some paragraphs for people who are totally new to TRPGs. In the game which add elements of strategic board game to TRPG, so it is supposed to attract those board game players who are familiar with clear rules of board games. And with extensive explanation of positions, effects with a lot of examples which I totally like.
MisterTia86
1. Well, if it would be much better if there was distinct mentioning of it. It is game term after all, it has quantitive scale, so it could have quantitive effect at leas for some actions. But it isn’t mentioned under position, effect, specific actions or even load entry itself.
3. Well, is it your interpretation or are there some other sources confirming that? I mean, I’m not a game-designer, I don’t like to balance odds and ends myself, I try to rely on the system as much as possible. So if it’s playtested and approved that information gathering might be an action roll (and not a fortune roll) with action consequences, that’s one thing.
But if it’s just another houserule, well, I could implement it myself, then again why do we need this system as separate at all?
1: Im not sure what you are looking for. Are you looking for, “In X situation, Y load will always have Z result”? What kind of guidelines are you looking for beyond what is present?
2: The term “Free Play” was only added in the late versions of the game. The game functions perfectly fine without worrying about what specifically you can do in free play that you cant do in the other areas of play. The phase of Downtime specifically refers to the specific downtime actions listed in the rule-book. Notice how, “Have a discussion with Player X” is not a downtime action. Those kinds of things are not downtime actions, but they take place outside of a score. So again im not entirely sure what you are looking for here. Do you want specific mechanics unique to Free Play?
3: Information does give bonuses it gives increased position and effect. Attempting to break into a house without any information gathered would probably be desperate position possibly limited effect. If you take the time to Gather Information that can easily be put up to Risky position with Standard effect. Position and Effect are the foundation of the dice mechanics. Are you looking for other benefits? If so, what?
Michael Yater
1. Well, not that, but at least a sentence or two in places where it might be convenient. Like when assessing position add “consider character’s Load”. Or in the description of particular actions add “Prowl usually have worse position or effect with heavier Load”, “Sometimes you can get better position for Command with heavier Load – the man armed to teeth in heavy armour is intimadting”.
It’s not that there’s no direction at all. The problem is huge disbalance between very distinct, thorough and quantitive mechanics to determine Load and very vague mechanics of using that Load to assess position/effects.
2. Just a couple of examples what meaningful actions characters can do during Free Play besides gathering information and overall roleplaying for players’ fun and atmospere with no measurable goal for characters. Which aren’t covered by appropriate downtime activities.
3. So, the question is how much time can you spend gathering information? Sample questions on p. 37 and in playbooks include both Free Play and Score information gathering. And again, are all information gathering rolls made like Fortune rolls with no dire consequences? Yeah, I’m almost assured now that they can be like Action rolls but this isn’t obvious from the book.
Anyway, maybe this discussion would help to clarify the rules or make FAQ.
Thanks for all the replies.
1: Ok I see what you are saying. You are correct. The book does not give specific mechanical guidelines for these things but I think that’s intentional. This gives the authority to the group to allow the fiction to influence the other mechanical aspects of the game. In my opinion there comes a point where too many mechanics guiding what you do detracts from the product. Blades strikes a very good balance I think between giving mechanical reinforcement to the things that need it, and the things that don’t. You are pursuing the problem in the right way though. Asking your fellow gamers and having a discussion about it. The discussion should also be had amoungst your group. You have the freedom and flexibility offered by the game to decide exactly how much you want load to effect your characters. Set precedents for your group, and allow discussions during play that permit the fiction to control the mechanics. Do what makes sense in the moment. If you dont think the characters load will affect the chosen action then it doesnt.
2: Free Play might be where you play out a consequence of a Devils Bargain for example. It would be where in character discussions about what the next target is. Discussing what plan you will use for the next score. You state that you are looking for examples besides general RP and Gather Info so I hope those few are what you are looking for. Depending on how heavy on RP your crew is you may spend a lot or a little time here. My crew spends quite a bit of time just mulling about RPing different scenes we want to play out so much of our time is spent in this part of the game, but crews can just as easily go from score, to downtime, have one scene discussing the next target, and jump strait to deciding the plan type.
3: This is determined in my opinion from a section in the GM bad habits section on page 199. “Dont Roll Twice For The Same Thing.” If a player tries to gather information about a specific thing, its one and done. They cant get a bad result and just try again. It goes against the principles of the game to do that. There is no hard time limit to how much time can be spent gathering information on different things, but Dont Roll Twice For The Same Thing.
And for sure John views things on this page all the time and often responds. I wouldnt be surprised if he is compiling FAQ for a master list somewhere.
You are very welcome and thank you for contributing to the ongoing discussion around Blades In The Dark. I hope my responses have been helpful.
Anton Menshenin I have only few things to add to what Michael Yater already wrote 🙂
About free play: don’t forget that xp-trigger are reviewed after a session, not after a score.
In other words: free play is a perfectly good opportunity to bump up your playbook-specific or background xp to 2, if you missed out on it in the score.
About gathering information: making fortune rolls for it until you get a desired effect is pretty much against the spirit of the game, indeed.
But it’s a little different with action rolls, because they can differ greatly in consequences; after all, it’s pretty desperate if you keep running around asking the same questions over and over (player and GM should have a short talk about if both are ok with it, it shouldn’t feel like weaseling to any of them).
By the way, there are two of John Harper’s BidD campaigns on YouTube, and both are great examples of how the designer intends his game to be played (more or less; John insists that it’s not meant as a definite guide, sometimes he makes mistakes, adapts to his players, changed his mind…), and also are really entertaining lessons in role-playing:
1) The last Word: it started with the pre-release version of the rules, some minor things have changed since then (e.g. Healing).
2) Bloodletters: it started years back, shortly before the Kickstarter, and only with episodes 6 the rules started to resemble the current version’s
3) Stardancer: actually not John Harper, but Stras Acimovic running his blades-playset Scum and Villany (BitD with starships, blasters and space-wizards); it started a month ago.