So does anyone else have any issues with the Slide ability, Like Looking Into A Mirror?
This thing just seems crazy to me, and potentially game breaking. I’ve got a Slide in my crew and he’s been eyeing this thing pretty lustfully and I’ve been dreading the day he finally decides to pull the trigger and take it.
This is a game of scoundrels, criminals, and bad guys, after all. Every other word out of every other mouth is a lie, and to suddenly have somebody who can just see through them all at will just seems nuts. I mean, I’ve got a plot line going right now with about two dozen NPC’s, all with their own agendas, and most of those agendas pivoting on deception, half-truths, and flat out lies. And that’s not even taking into account the PC’s who lie to the NPC’s and each other more than they tell the truth.
And all the sudden I’m gonna have this one guy who can see through it all? I’m worried that the whole house of cards is going to come crashing down and they’ll be no pieces left to pick up.
I’ve actually been using the Roll Play Blades crew as a faction in my game. If you’ve seen that series and remember, Lady Cataby took that ability toward the end of the show. I don’t think she ever got to use it, but I’ve had to take it away from her in my game because it would kill any chance for my PC crew to ever put one over on Cariless and Co.
So, what are your experiences with it? Am I wringing my hands over nothing?
I’m loathe to remove it as an option for the PC’s for a couple of reasons. I’m still relatively new to Blades and I don’t want to tinker too much with the system before I’ve seen it in action. And that ability made it past the play testers, so it must be there for a reason. Plus it feels kind of cheap to ax a cool ability option from the Slide. I’d try to replace it with something equally cool, but still, I think I’d be a little put out if I was the player.
What do you think?
All it does is let the Slide know when someone’s lying. It doesn’t tell them what the truth is. As you say, it’s a safe bet to assume everyone’s a little shady, all this does is give confirmation.
I’ve had a couple of different games with PCs with this ability. I know a player or two have said the same thing but it never turned out like that at all.
First off, this is not an investigation game. Even without this ability I try to answer player questions and say stuff like my ‘they’re lying to you.’ Because keeping secrets isn’t where the fun is in this game, it’s getting to see what the PCs do with what they know. You have to balance that with challenging PCs who have specialised in info gathering actions and abilities. But generally, I err on being liberal with info and open with secrets (i.e. let the players know, even if the PCs don’t).
Second, the ability only tells them that they’re lying, not what they’re lying about. And, as you said, everyone lies almost all the time. So the ability can cause plenty of red herrings and mayhem if the players follow every lying with an interrogation. Some lies are small, some lies hide unwelcome truths the PCs don’t want to know, some lies are just plain unnecessary, etc. So there’s plenty of ways to dial back the usefulness of this ability. I’ve never really had to. In fact, I love it because it’s one less GM decision I have to make: if the players want to know if someone’s lying (I always ask first), I know I can just tell them.
And then sit back and watch the feathers fly.
Also you can really get your Slide to crap their pants by having an NPC deliver a specific, excruciating threat and then follow it up by stating that it is unequivocally true.
Eric Thornber yes that’s just the best
honestly, I feel this ability just gives more story potential. Sure, they know they are lying, but what are they willing to do to find out the truth? Press the liar more and risk pissing them off? Sneak around and risk getting found out? Find a rival to get the truth but now you have yet another person in your business? (And one of the themes of Blades is that the world is so small that anyone can find out what anyone else is up to.)
“I mean, I’ve got a plot line going right now with about two dozen NPC’s, all with their own agendas, and most of those agendas pivoting on deception, half-truths, and flat out lies.”
One of the GM goals is “play to find out what happens.” So yes, you have this situation set up where people are lying to each other in pursuit of their own goals. And then here comes the Slide, who can now automatically detect when those people are lying to them. Like you said, this house of cards could potentially come tumbling down.
So find out if that happens and what the NPCs do to try and preserve it, or how they try to take advantage of the potential chaos, or what happens if everything falls apart.
“I’ve actually been using the Roll Play Blades crew as a faction in my game. If you’ve seen that series and remember, Lady Cataby took that ability toward the end of the show. I don’t think she ever got to use it, but I’ve had to take it away from her in my game because it would kill any chance for my PC crew to ever put one over on Cariless and Co”
I haven’t watched it, but are you giving NPCs PC abilities? You shouldn’t do that. You can tell them “Lady Cataby is a master at reading people. She’ll know if you lie to her.” Then they can choose to resist it if they really need to get a lie past her.
One of my biggest problems in terms of plotting is actually players not questioning statements frequently, so this ability lets them finally start pushing their way into conspiracies.
Hmmm. Well, maybe I’ll just leave it alone for now and see what happens.
I wouldn’t say I’ve been letting NPC’s have PC abilities. This is actually the first time it’s come up.
Basically I’ve got a PC who is beholden to a faction (Lady Cataby’s), but who is also allies with Lord Scurlock. The faction and Scurlock are at odds. If the faction found out the PC had loyalties to Scurlock he’d be in very deep trouble.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but I feel like it would make things a little less interesting. Currently the PC is rather enjoying the dangerous game he’s playing.
The upshot is that I removed the Mirror ability from Cataby to make it a non issue. As suggested, she is very perceptive and it’s not easy keeping his secret, but it’s also not just a given that she would know he’s lying if she asked the right questions.
For that matter I’ve got an inspector that is dogging them at every turn, determined to put them away. I wouldn’t give him that ability either.
Anyway, thanks for the input.
You can be inspired by PC special abilities, but don’t actually give them to NPCs. Definitely make NPCs a threat, but do it in the fiction, telegraphing trouble and following through. The NPC threat levels section on page 167 is the best, I use it all the time.
I have a PC in my current game with that ability, but I haven’t had any problems with it. As mentioned before, knowing someone is lying isn’t the same as knowing the truth. There’s also plenty of opportunity for ignorant NPCs (dupes, minions, etc) who have been lied to but think they know the truth. Also, the narrative can be steered to prevent a Slide from talking with people who would have reason to lie. Or maybe the folks in question just refuse to answer or change the subject. Seems suspicious, sure, but that adds to the drama IMO.
But in general, like Oliver mentions, I also tend to be pretty open about information that it makes sense for the PCs to know.
I would echo what’s been said already about the Slide ability. It’s not as broken as you think. Just because you know someone is lying doesn’t mean you also automatically know what the truth is. The truth tends to be complicated.
Also, who cares if they know? What are they going to do about it? Is everyone else going to believe them? Sure the player can just point at their sheet and say, ‘but I have this ability’ but it’s up to everyone else to decide if they’re going to believe them in the fiction.
And as already mentioned, this ability is a double-edged sword. If you’re worried about them abusing it, find an NPC they like. Find someone who provides their vice or tends their favourite bar, someone in this world who’s company they enjoy. Then have that NPC say something chummy and friendly, like they usually do, and let the Slide know: “They’re lying.”
See if they’re so quick to use that ability in the future.
A big part of blades is lowering the responsibility and status of the GM, and giving the players more of a say in the direction of the game. This is one example of that philosophy in practice and I’ve found it works great and is super fun when the player gets to use it.
One really fun thing to do as a GM is have a lot of your shadier NPCs be completely up front about their shadiness. Especially demons.
Folks above covered why this ability works pretty well. So I’ll just add that I think having an NPC who can see through mundane deceptions is a great idea. Especially someone attuned to the supernatural or entirely demonic themselves. As was mentioned, allowing players to resist by treating it as a consequence makes sense and you can also spin it into an action roll–often deceptions are played explicitly as action rolls and even more casual things you can turn into decision points by asking “Is that a lie?” and telling or showing them that she knows that.
Don’t worry about being fair, either. Always give players their chances as storytellers, but it’s ok for the world to be dangerous and unfair to the characters themselves. It’s great for powerful characters/entities they encounter to blind-side them with that power. Let the players cross paths with people far more powerful than them–antagonistically, cooperatively, or incidentally–and let them feel that power.