I’m about to run a game, but I’m having trouble understanding a couple of related issues with the game. It may be that it’s written somewhere in the book that I’ve missed, or it might be that the answer is ‘whatever your group decides’, in which case, that’s fine, but I would appreciate some advice!
Essentially, is there an ‘initiative’ system? How do I know who goes first and in what order? How does this relate to clocks?
Example 1: The crew runs into a challenging opponent. One player wants to shoot him, another wants to tackle him, another wants to sneak past. Is there a system to work out who would be able to make which call and when?
Example 2: One of the players initiates a fight with the NPC. I start an eight-segment clock for a challenging opponent. How do I decide which PC goes next?
Example 3: The first player has filled two segments of the clock marked ‘Kill the NPC’. When the second player takes his turn, does his result add directly to the clock? Or does he spend stress to assist the first player? Or is either possible, depending upon the story and description of the action? (E.g. : “I try to stab him” vs. ‘I try to keep him off balance so the other guy can stab him’)
Thanks in advance, and sorry if this has been answered elsewhere!
There’s no initiative system in Blades. That said: one of the playbooks (I think the Lurk) has a special ability that lays out “if there’s a question about who acts first, you do.”
Re: Example 1: What makes the most sense, and which of them was the most impulsive in deciding to act first? Like, it sounds like someone getting bored while they tried to figure out a course of action and someone saying “Screw it, I shoot him.” If so, figure out what happens with that (and the fallout) first. (Also, honestly that sounds like a bad scene waiting to play out in general where you might want to have a player vs character knowledge conversation. “Are you sure you want to shoot him? You know if he dies the spirit wardens are going to show up, right? And it’s going to spike your heat from the score?” Then remind them that even if their goal is just to wound him, if they roll bad and there’s fallout, they might kill them on accident and…)
It’s a weird dance at first (especially if you’re used to games with a system like D&D/Pathfinder), but it starts to work out once everyone gets a feel for letting things flow and the spotlight moving around.
Re: Example 2: Whoever you want to shine the spotlight on goes next. You’re the director, where does the camera swing next? Or, if someone has a clear idea of what they want to do next and someone else is still hemming and hawing and holding back? Go with someone that knows what they want.
Re: Example 3: Yes, it adds to the clock. If the Lurk, Leech, and Slide each have a way that they’re individually taking action and working on the “get into the Dimmer Sister’s secure vault” clock, they all get to add ticks to it. Along the way they can also {help/group action/etc.} as well, but if it’s towards a shared goal, it’s ticks on the clock for that goal.
If in doubt, I tend to ask the players. “So, you want to shoot, tackle, and sneak past him. Who’s doing what and when?” and let them explain out-of-character. The guy sneaking might say “Naaa, no point sneaking if there’s a gunfight” or maybe they say “We’ll let him sneak, but if he gets spotted I’m hiding behind this wall ready to jump up and start shooting.” and the other player says “That works for me. He’ll be surprised by the shooting, and if he survives it, I’ll tackle him from the side.”
You’re right that the order of things happening matters – but instead of using initiative to figure out the other, let the players figure out what order they want, and use storytelling and cause-then-effect rather than “turns”.
When there’s a fight or something, I typically let every player take one action, then narrate what the NPCs are doing, then let the players take an action. They act in whatever order they want, and pretty quickly figure it out between themselves. Just make sure everyone is “getting the chance to do something.” If they want to.
This “let the players decide” is also the answer for example 3. Just ask them outright “Hey, so you’re working together to kill the guy. Are you rolling to fill the clock, or are you rolling to set up the next guy’s action?” (And then use the normal rules for filling a clock or for helping someone else’s action.)
For the first few games, I suggest really breaking down each action into parts.
1. Describe what you’re trying to achieve (“I want to kill the guy”)
2. Fictionally describe how you’re doing that (“I’m going to grab a pool cue from the rack, and stab it through his head.”
3. GM describes the mechanics (“OK, So this is a major guy, I’m going to give him a clock with four pieces. And he’s already prepared for a fight and is certainly dangerous. I’m going to say this is a risky roll using brawl.”)
4. GM describes the stakes (“Once the clock is filled, he’ll be dead, but the bell will ring so the spirit wardens will know someone died here. And the consequences will be that as you stab at him, he steps in past the pool cue, grabs your arm, and breaks it. Serious injury.”)
5. Player agrees or negotiates (“Wait, I’m stabbing across the table, that doesn’t make sense.” “Hmm, OK. He’ll draw a hidden pistol and shoot you. Still serious injury” “OK!”)
6. Roll. Describe the outcome. Check if the player wants to resist. (“Hmm, success with complications. So you stab him in the head and fill two sections of the clock, he staggers back while drawing a pistol from his vest, pointing at you, and shoots. Did you want to resist that?”)
7. Describe resisting. (“Yeah. I’ll resist it.”, “How?”, “As I see the pistol, I dive for the ground, putting the pool table between us.”)
8. Roll to resist and spend stress.
… wow, there’s a lot. But seriously, break it down like that for the first few games, it’ll help the players learn the system, and it’ll help you keep track of things while running it. I actually printed out these steps, complete with numbers, for each player. Then we would go through them point by point.
My players didn’t want to go through so slowly, because they’re experienced roleplayers. But what happens if you rush through is you automatically assume things work like in other games. And that causes confusion and wastes time.
Doing it step by step helped the game “click” and then very quickly we were doing all these steps without having to go step-by-step. So the above conversation, at around session 3 or 4, flowed much faster and more naturally. Something like:
“I’m going to kill that guy, by grabbing a pool cue and stabbing him in the head. Risky brawl roll?”
“Yep. He’s tough, so it’s a four-piece clock. If you fail, he’ll step in and break your arm.”
“No, the pool table is in the way.”
“OK. He’ll draw a hidden pistol and shoot.”
“Cool. rolls two successes, and a complication. I’m resisting by diving under the table.”
… so we’re still actually going through all the steps. We’re just not stopping and asking for each step as a separate question, because the players and GM already know to give that information. It becomes habit pretty quickly.
[posted below for clarity]
When it comes to initiative it comes down to whoever describes their action first. Though, if the players are in the open when a fight starts I like to describe what an enemy is about to do, so as to establish threat and prompt action without making everyone take preordained turns. If one character seems to be doing everything, ask the other players what they’re doing.
Meanwhile, clocks are good for tracking the conditions of a battlefield, but I find them less compelling as health bars. Instead, think about the position and effect levels and what they mean in this particular context. Tackling a strongman may be desperate-limited, while shooting them may be risky-great, because it doesn’t matter if they’re Schwarzenegger, they’re still vulnerable to a bullet to the brain.
So, how this would work in play is something like:
“You’re hidden behind a bunch of crates when your target walks in and heads over to a series of charts laid out on the table about 20 feet from you, What do you do?.”
“Okay, I whisper to the others ‘If we sneak around that way we can…'”
“I stand up and shoot him in the head!”
“That shot’ll be tricky to pull off before he notices you, and if you don’t pull it off he’ll be right on top of you guys. So this sounds like a desperate-great.”
“Cool, xp…And that’s a five.”
“Okay, so you stand up, level your gun at his head and fire…a bit too early and rather than splattering his brains, you’ve lodged a bullet in his shoulder, he staggers momentarily before whipping around and starts sprinting towards you, drawing his sword. Furthermore, your gunshot alerted the gang, I’m starting a six-clock before they arrive.”
“Well, so much for stealth. I vault over the crates, dagger in hand and try to disarm them.”
“He’s pretty tough and enraged, so that sounds like a pretty desperate move, or it would be if he weren’t injured. How about risky-standard?”
These are all really helpful, especially Michael Raichelson’s comments. Thank you very much!
It may also be worth noting: The NPC in most of those scenarios may be taking some version of “their turn” as the result of the player rolls as things go (since they never really roll dice of their own).
“I charge in and stab him.” Followed by a big stack of ones on the dice quickly turns into “I charge in to stab him, he cracks me in the face, I drop my blade and my momentum carries me onto the one I didn’t notice he had slipped out from behind his back as I was moving in.” Then you can deal with harm and ask that other player if they REALLY still want to try to sneak past now that their buddy’s bleeding like a stuck pig on the cobblestones.
I’m away from my copy of the rules at the moment, but the book describes the following guidelines: by default, the players have initiative. They can do what they want, and NPC can only respond; this continues until the PCs get what they want, or something happens that causes the PCs to loose initiative.
If an NPC is skilled opponent (entirely up to the GM to make that call), then the GM can decribe the NPC taking initiative, and ask how the PCs respond (“He draws his pistol and opens fire on you. What do you do?”). Then whatever roll the PC makes does double duty to resolve both the PC’s and NPC’s action.
If an NPC is especially dangerous, then the GM can describe what the NPC has already done, and invite the PCs to make a resistence roll to mitigate the damage.
One of the many things I enjoy and use as an exemplum of games with PbtA roots is the lack of an initiative system.
Tony Demetriou Stealing that workflow 🙂
Marvelous, thank you all.
An observation, possibly off base: you describe the fighting in very mechanical terms up there, “a player initiates a fight so I start a clock” and so on. You can do that if you want, sure, but Blades is designed to allow a looser flow. “A fight” doesn’t have to be a thing separate from anything else they’re doing. It’s just a series of actions with consequences, and the action can be “I leap across the canal” or “I shiv this guy in the kidney” or “I seduce the barmaid” — it doesn’t matter because they’re all resolved in exactly the same way.
A fight doesn’t have to have a rigid rotation of evenly-distributed actions. See if you can think about it like you’re writing a scene in a story rather than playing a wargame. Sometimes it makes sense to let the characters act in the order that optimizes their plan. Sometimes it’s better to mess with them and put someone in a spot. Sometimes you can let the dice decide. Sometimes it’s just a matter of “Sara the player hasn’t gotten to do anything for a while, so let’s make it her turn.”
Even more, a fighting action can represent one hit or a flurry or the entire fight in one roll. The game doesn’t say. How do you decide which? Do what’s fun for the table, and what makes sense dramatically. Is this guy important, are they interesting, are the players invested in beating them? Then play it out in detail with damage clocks, sure. Or is the opponent just a speedbump? Then get it over with and get on to the fun parts. Roll one action, let the dice tell you how it turned out, and assign consequences accordingly
I revise my answer. There is an initiative system of sorts. It’s not called by that name, and uses fictional comparison rather than numerical comparison. This is perhaps best described on Page 6 – where it is stated how the GM’s job is say how possible and effective a given action is (and by proxy, which actions can occur first).
P.163 elaborates on how players trigger the action roll through conversation about what they are doing, and p.167 describes how the GM presents the things master NPCs have already done which players may resist if they wish.
Ex 1: Resolve actions in the order that makes sense according to what is happening. Players discuss which actions they feel are valid, and the GM tells them how effective and risky it is. This solves the question quickly without really talking about initiative: “Well, shooting them through the impeding building will have zero effect. Fighting them from across the canal also has no effect. However, as it stands the sneaking character will have limited effect on a risky roll.”
The fighter might go first because they lined up their punches last turn. Or they might go last to take advantage of the Hound’s distracting hail of gunfire.
Ex 2: See above. Also note that when players take action towards the same goal, one can lead the action (rolling Command to direct it, or rolling the action with the others). Or, they can set up another PC to “chain” their actions together for greater results. Finally, they might take 1 stress to assist if they don’t have faith in an action roll to create the setup. See Teamwork p.134 for details.
Ex.3: Maybe (probably). After players describes what they want, and their chosen action and approach to get it, the GM considers the alignment of fiction with desired fiction – using this to decide the action’s possible effect. PCs can often help each other work on a given clock, even though it is sometimes the case they cannot until they do a certain thing first. Depends, like above.
[colin] Indeed. My examples were deliberately simple, though, to cut to the core of my question.
[Mark] Most kind; I appreciate the extra food-for-thought.
JR White Fair enough. I would simplify my blathering to say, 95% of initiative in Blades is covered by the GM Goal “Convey the fictional world honestly,” the Actions “Cut to the Action”, “Telegraph Trouble” and “Follow Through”, and the Principles “Be a fan of the characters” and “Let everything flow from the fiction.” Seriously, treat those as rules. Do justice to your NPCs, let the PCs be awesome, and just pick who goes when so that the world feels real.
The other maybe 5% are the times when the question of “who goes first” really does seem like life or death and you as GM don’t want it to be your fault for choosing. Then I’d go ahead and make it a fortune roll. It straight-up says: “the fortune roll is a tool the GM can use to disclaim decision making.”