25 thoughts on “Thoughts on game design, from a publishers perspective. Thread:”

  1. Just as a thought. If Forged In The Dark Fantasy setting does run into the potential challenge of reinforcing colonist narratives when not interrogate upon further; wouldn’t it be necessary as well to examine to which extent a contemporary (or just urban) Forged In The Dark game/setting, especially if low on the supernatural stuff, runs into the risk of perpetuating a romanticized narrative of organized crime if not examined with care?

    I do admit that it might totally be that am overthinking it. Just had to think of a friend who was somewhat hesitant to join a session of BitD because he thought that, for his taste, it was at the risk of being to less on the “Leverage” side of things and closer to a narrative where it doesn’t feel like playing scoundrels but more straight-up criminals. (The game we played still worked out fine and it isn’t a point which would keep me away from the game, just something I am occasionally conscious about)

  2. >Read point 1

    >Deep Sigh

    >Slowly raise hand

    Guilty as charged for my first pass on the Age of Blood text, but I’m getting around to exploring that space. Had a brainstorm session with some good friends who will be playtesting it with me starting this coming Tuesday (!) and it feels somewhat better.

    Part of the challenge that I think leads to both 1 and 2 is that it’s scary to get the feeling that you might be designing your hypothetical table of players into too tight a corner: “If I ask too many provocative questions during Character Creation, or strictly define how this setting differs from others superficially like it, all the characters will end up feeling the same or it will limit the kinds of stories my game can tell.” I have really struggled with that exact doubt.

    Blades demonstrates a very strong counter-argument with the power of it’s central conceit that every character must be a scoundrel, swindler, hoodlum, or somewhere on that spectrum in a vast haunted city (consider just how much it says about a Blades PC that they are automatically proficient in the 12 Actions, have an active Vice they must pursue, are a member of a ‘Crew’, etc.). The game is razor-focused on it’s goal and benefits greatly from that decision. And Blades PCs are frankly some of the best, I think at least in part because of those narrowing setting decisions and provocative questions that it asks.

    Jennifer Fuss I think at least part of the difference comes down to depth of critical examination. A lot of good crime fiction is good because the characters are demonstrated to be fully multi-dimensional and human, rather than caricatures of exciting/horrible illicit behavior. We find out what drove them to their profession, what taboos they still will not break, what they hold dear, how they rationalize their inner fictions, etc.

    In short the characters, in all of the best fiction, are humanized. Lots of fictional people’s actions are terrible, or stand for terrible moments in the human experience. But we still devour those stories which are told well because rather than cheaply exploit such themes they unflinchingly explore the actions of rational(-ish) people in awful situations and turn a mirror on the human experience.

  4. Charles Simon, just in our email discussion I see you already delving more into the characters motivations. I think you’re on the right path for sure!

  5. On the one hand, “examine whether your game reinforces fraught or harmful narratives” is generally good game design advice. On the other hand, I’d like to see at least one FitD game that plays the Dungeon Crawler genre straight, even if it means it’s up to the table to avoid or address the problematic implications.

    It strikes me that core game of Blades is a game that’s much more about reinforcing genre tropes than interrogating or subverting them. As someone coming into it from the PbtA tradition, I see it as lacking a lot of the obvious levers that PbtA games use to push play in trope-subverting directions or to contextualize PC actions toward a specific designer’s take on the Genre (most obvious example is how the rules of MonsterHearts enforce queerness).

    It’ll be interesting to see as more FitD games come out what non-obvious lever people find or create along those lines.

  6. I’d be interested to hear more thoughts about #1 colonialism & fantasy (eg D&D). I’d say any good hack of Blades gives players the opportunity to define why they play through what motivates the characters. To me, the “unalterable” core of Blades is the focus on the crew — what does the crew want? Survival, power, glory, devotion to some sort of altruistic ethos, etc. The setting and characters flavor the story, but the crew motivations easily cross genre classifications.

  7. Alan Scott I think Blades does a different sort of interrogation. I think it spends a great deal interrogating the crime lifestyle and it’s effects on participants. By default the characters in Blades are not good people (not necessarily bad, but not good either) and have a vice that is screwing with their lives. Characters accumulate stress and trauma and slowly decay as functional people. Being a criminal messes you up in Doskvol

    This does serve as a sort of genre interrogation indirectly as it runs counter to many formulations of criminal enterprises as romantic jobs. So I think it still achieves many of the same things traditional PbtA games also do.

  9. I don’t see either temporary stress or trauma working as a critic as it isn’t something affecting the characters alone. Everyone, including those trying to be on the lawful side of things or attempting to better the things, will amass stress and trauma as well. It is not an act of being a criminal that’s inherently tied to it, but some normal aspect of the setting. Thus I don’t see how it is running counter to the genre.

  10. Blades makes protagonists of characters who commit crimes. How romanticized that is in play depends on the group.

    Politically, though, the message of Blades is one of empathy for those who are trapped in a world where criminality is the only option. Hopefully some time in their shoes can help us see past the “criminal” label that society places on people as an identity that wipes everything else out.

  12. As someone who’s designing a game himself, this is great advice. I’ll give it a thorough read-over later in the process again, to make sure I haven’t backslid. 🙂

  13. I really enjoyed reading through that thread, and in fact, saved it to a Word Doc. I do, however, have a few issues.

    #1 goes directly against what Blades Against Darkness appears to be doing. Additionally, some would say that in building an OSR-style hack of Blades, the things you mention are features, not flaws.

    There is an issue of preference with #3, as well. The example that most stands out to me would be regarding a game with superpowers. To paraphrase a blog I recently read on superhero rpgs, when playing one of these games, in general people want to do everything with powers. What may seem boring to one person is exactly what someone else may be looking for.

    I participated in a Mage game once where the majority of the players were doing practically everything with the spheres at their command (including hacking, I would like to add – my character was a Virtual Adept). The GM ran a scenario where our base of operations was discovered by the Technocracy even though we had layered wards and other countermeasures against such a thing. At the end of the session, our GM said he was trying to get the point across to us that we needed to rely on our skills & wits and only use magic as a last resort. Our response: If that’s the kind of game you want to run, why are we playing Mage? We are mages, we want to do magic all the time.

  14. Brandon Perkins I think that in a FitD game that is about PCs using magic/superpowers all the time, there should not be a single action that governs the use of magic/superpowers — instead, you should be able to perform any action in a way that uses magic/superpowers!

  15. Jakob Oesinghaus I’ve had similar thoughts, where the special abilities allow you to really emphasize the style of action in a way keeping with your playbook. So you might see a set of playbooks for something where all the characters are mages but specialize in magic style or form of magic this playbook is a necromancer, this one an evoker, this one blends magic with swordplay, etc).

    Conversely, an action similar to attune may be a meta-action, covering knowledge and use. for example, a sorcery skill in an all-mage game may help you research new “spells” and be used for ritual activities, and used as a magical awareness.

  16. Brandon Perkins I’ve been thinking about a “magic” ability for each attribute. That way, a mage can emphasize in form (type of magic) and style (preferred action).

  17. If magic/hacking/whatever is that important, it probably shouldn’t be an action, but divided among multiple actions. Same reason there isn’t one “fight” action in BitD

  18. Eric Brunsell What is magic anyway? There is already Not to Be Trifled With and The Devil’s Footsteps which are almost certainly a form of physical magic. Or how about the ability Like Looking into a Mirror, which always works. How is that? if not for a bit of social or intuitive magic, it doesn’t seem possible.

  19. Mark Cleveland Massengale I agree, but that is in the context of Blades. If thinking about a Mage: The Awakening style game, the magic system needs to be defined differently. The special abilities that you mentioned fit for the Blades setting, but not necessarily for a different setting that focuses entirely on mage characters.

  20. Mark Cleveland Massengale Eric Brunsell I feel you are both correct. It’s about flavor and context. That is a major part of this essay I agree with wholeheartedly – the matter requires deeper thought on the part of the designer implementing the device beyond some superficial re-skinning or a sentence never even reviewed for consistency. Your world needs to feel as lived in as Duskvol, even if it is simply a sepia-toned watercolor of broad brush-strokes.

  21. Eric Brunsell Those abilities and others like them consistently exceed human capabilities and the limitations of realism. They don’t give +1d to do things you can already do – they give new capabilities unavailable to normal people.

    If you change the setting so that “normal people” means something else (everyone ever is magical), then perhaps you need to redefine what sort of magic the PCs can get so that it exceeds that. However, I don’t see those being unfitting for a game about playing as mages- they just all get access to magical abilities, that’s all. In fact, Blades is kind of already that.

  22. I believe you are just overengineering. All these questions should be attended but any one of them could be left blank.

    What’s the problem with heroes being glorified bullies in a fantasy world, for example? If they are glorified enough and interesting enough…

    What’s the problem if the text gives you no idea what do your crew do? If your group decide it while creating PCs, it’s totally OK. If their GM can possibly overlook such matters, then the rules they use is their least problem 😉

    And so on

  24. Hey Sean Nittner I’ve been working on a blades hack for a while now, I was planning on hitting you up through here when I was closer. Where should I contact you from now on with G+ closing down?

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