Can players push themselves whilst indulging their vices?
At first it sounds like madness, but for a character on 4 stress it removes the risk of overindulging, with the downside that its less likely to remove all stress (in fact you might end up with a point more stress).
I think you can only Push when you are rolling an Action, and Indulging Vice doesn’t roll vs any Action, so I’d rule no.
Arne Jamtgaard Page 13 makes it pretty clear it doesn’t have to be an action roll:
“You can use stress to push yourself for greater performance. For each bonus you choose below, take 2 stress (each can be chosen once for a given action):
• Add +1d to your roll. (This may be used for an action roll or downtime roll or any other kind of roll where extra effort would help you)”
I think the question really is would ‘extra effort help you’. Maybe if you’re tying very hard not to be distracted – not fully giving in to the vice (which works fictionally and mechanically).
This doesn’t make sense in the fiction.
Doesn’t make sense mechanically, vice rolls don’t have effect levels so “extra effort” won’t do anything.
Edit: Regardless of whether a +1d gets added, avoiding the consequences of overindulging does not seem like a natural consequence of pushing. We all know what mechanic to use for trying to avoid bad outcomes and honestly I don’t see how resisting interfaces with indulging vice either.
Declan Feeney Good point – just re-read p. 13.
Given that, I would turn such a request back on the player to justify. “You want to Push for an extra die? Okay, how are you appreciating the opera REALLY HARD?”
I would rule no, Namely that it takes away from the fun and the risk/reward inherent in overindulging.
Yes. PCs can push themselves for +1d on any roll (“Add +1d to your roll. (This may be used for an action roll or downtime roll or any other kind of roll where extra effort would help you).”
bladesinthedark.com – Stress & Trauma | Blades in the Dark RPG
Whether it’s a good idea is up to the player.
Jason Eley
Action rolls and downtime rolls both have effect levels though… Where does effect come into play with Vice rolls?
Nah, that’s too much control.
Downtime rolls have result levels, which are distinct from effect. Effect only comes into play with action rolls. I would say a PC could not push for additional effect on a downtime roll since there is no effect level set for the roll. A PC could only push themselves to get +1d on the roll, not any other benefit.*
*Unless they are at level 3 Harm and you want to rule that they need to recover / push before they can engage in downtime activities, but I think that is up to the GM.
OK players can push to hit their vice even harder by pushing , adding +1d and increasing their chances of overindulging.
That’s worthy of an XP for struggling with their vice in my opinion.
(And it is absolutely counter to any house rules that allow PCs to avoid overindulging when they roll higher than their stress…)
Omari Brooks But doesn’t Pushing DECREASE the chances of overindulging? It adds to your Stress by 2, so you’d have to roll much higher to overindulge.
Declan Feeney Jason Eley huh. I’d missed that rule allowing pushes on a downtime roll. Thanks for pointing it out.
Pushing may in reduce or remove the chance of overindulging (safe at 6+ stress), but it also introduces the chance of ending up just as stressed or worse than before you indulge. It feels like a fun gamble to me.
I wouldn’t allow it myself because, in the fiction (and this IS a fiction led game), pushing yourself means you are trying really hard to succeed. You’re using extra effort to get what you want.
You can’t try really hard to succeed at drinking, or praying, or listening to an opra, or appreciating art or at takong drugs etc. It just doesn’t make sense in the fiction that someone would stress themselves out to succeed at relieving stress.
It makes sense to push to aquire a really important asset for your crew. It makes sense to push to reduce heat. It does not make sense to push to indulge your vice
To add, the book says indulging your vice is like a reverse resistance roll. You cannot push yourself on a resist, so why could you on a reverse of it?
Also as for the pg13 quote, it does say “or any other kind of roll where extra effort would help you”. You dont need effort to relax indulging your vice.
To me, if someone pushed so that they dont overindulge, then that’s being a Weasle. Rules state “don’t be a Weasle”. They’re using game mechanics to bypass negatives.
Totally agree with Antimatter. I would have said something similar. Always follow the fiction first of all, don’t weasel yourself out of overindulgence (which anyway can give you XP!).
I often overindulge on purpose and play extra characters to heal my over indulger.
“You can’t try really hard to succeed at drinking, or praying, or listening to an opera, or appreciating art or at taking(sic) drugs etc.”
…As a real life sailor I must strenuously disagree with this statement.
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Jeffry Crews you can take drugs, sure, but you can’t try really hard to take them, you just take them
Your cutting out the whole part of indulging where you have to find your vice. Try finding or enough alcohol in a dry town to get drunk or drugs in a town where no one sells your particular high. … You’ve never had to locate and kidnap opera stars at 2am to make them perform a private opera for you. There’s a lot more to vice than just enjoying it. That’s where you gotta try real hard to take your vice.
Jeffry Crews
Sure you can kidnap the opera singer at 2 am, that still doesn’t mean you can avoid the effects of overindulging which was an underlying effect the OP of this entire thread was trying to justify with pushing on a vice roll…
“don’t weasle”
I don’t have a problem allowing it.