Stras Acimovic
Few ship detail questions on Scum & Villainy:
Auxiliary modules dont go underneath a system, hence there seems no maximum. As such couldnt they better be treated as Ship Gear (no limit) instead of modules (limited by their system)? Or call them Interior/Ship Modifications.
Crew Gear seems like stuff you can take with you off-ship. Ship gear not [bolted down]. As such shouldnt Land Rover and Shuttle be Crew Gear?
And Workshop would be Ship Gear?
Crew Quarters prevent other modules installation (Modules are limited to system quality) while providing ‘in-game little benefit’.
Perhaps fit better as Ship gear (or Auxiliary.. but all Auxiliary should be Ship Gear)?
Might AI Module fit better under Comms as it seems more of an installation than targeting computer (and should thus take space = limited by system quality).
Might Shields should go under Hull for same reason?
I’m missing some kind of engine-failure armor.. other systems all have some kind of armor.. Would Backup Engine be a nice addition, especially since Engine has fewest modules?
Also missing is some missile defense under comms.. ECM seems fitting?
If too many upgrades couldnt Nexus Link be moved to Auxility/Ship Gear?
What do you think?
I’m working on Final Frontier, my hack of Blades for Star Trek fiction. I am very interested in where this thread goes.
So we actually tried doing a bunch of different names and different systems for this and it failed miserably. Naming everything different just caused confusion and we got consistently bad feedback on it. So we settled on modules and upgrades and all the bad feedback stopped. So I’m pretty sure we won’t switch to ship “gear”.
I know plenty of groups that could fiddle with more detail, but the truth is the game doesn’t need the complexity of ship load mechanics, and it didn’t really contribute anything to play.
Swap Land Rover/Workshop: Uh… yeah. This is actually a really good point. I think we’ll do this.
AI/Targetting Computer: These are changes you can make. I don’t think they’re deeply meaningful. A targeting module needs both a computer and wires to control the physical movement of guns so it was really big in our minds. AI cores are about the size of fists, so it’s just a question of running nano-filaments to a lot of the control structures so it was small. You can swap it in your game if that’s the kind of thing you like. It wouldn’t affect balance. Nexus links require antennas and transmission components so for us it made sense to put it in comms but you can swap that out too if you need. I don’t think we’ll be doing it in core S&V but it’s an easy hack for any home game.
Crew quarters take up a ton of space and resources (water for showers etc). Similarly they’ll stay in Hull for the base game, but it falls in this pile of ‘if you want to hack the game go for it’ I don’t think it’ll change balance significantly.
Engine Failure Shields: Two things. Shields are not in weapons because when we had two boxes next to everything in ships it was confusing to many folks whether you could get two particle cannons or what. So it’s just easier to pull it out and keep it in aux. Second – in EVERY space opera (and I do mean all of them) the first thing that fails is the engine/warp-coil/hyperdrive. When the Falcon is shot? Hyperdrive goes. When the Enterprise is shot? Warp coils fail. Engine armor is a great idea mechanically but its wrong for the genre.
ECM: Because shields can work on missiles if you need them to in your game, and it’s way more fun to say: OHNOES THREE MISSILES COMING AT YOU. CAN YOU MAKE A RISKY HELM ROLL TO DODGE!? Also missiles are less immediate so people can run to guns to shoot them down, come up with some rigged solutions to distract them etc. It makes for more dynamic scenes imo.
Great questions man ^_^ Keep them coming.
Ship Gear:
Page 14 of v1.6 still uses the term ship gear?
And Auxiliary Modules are actually Upgrades..?
I think another step (from v1.6) is needed for simplification.
Also many of the modules are only in the rulebook and not the sheet. It would be so much nicer if all S&V is on the sheet.
How about coming up with 5 system modules per system [and put them already on the ship with required boxes, just not filled] (include one extra empty line for those people who like to fiddle) and put all the rest under upgrades (no need for different types of upgrades) with number of required boxes. Might that help?
Crew Quarters:
Unless the ship is AI driven there should always be crew quarters already… ?
So with crew quarters you mean EXTRA crew quarters or passenger quarters?
Those kind of (extra) quarters come from converting other space, just like converting space into a workshop or science bay. So (extra) Crew quarters should be same category as workshop & science bay.
[Passengers is something really ‘Traveller’/’Firefly]
I understand movitation Engine Shields and ECM.
Jump Drive:
All player ships need jump drive, so no need to put it as obligatory system module.
Actually might it not be it’s own system.. after all upgrading the jump/hyperdrive is kinda a common theme.
Repair:
Doesnt it kinda suck to be Engineer as you will need to spend all your down-time repairing while the rest of the crew is training/acquiring?
[My solution would be as crew to provide engineer with a paycheck of at least 1 extra coin to buy extra downtime.. perhaps this should be mentioned somewhere to avoid disappointed players]? Or do I miss something?
Training
The training upgrades are not mentioned among the list of upgrades, only on the sheet [and that’s problem as not all modules are on sheet, so you need to use ‘book’ for selecting upgrades/modules and then you might overlook the training upgrades].
Armory
Given that most classes already have fine weapons.. isnt it a bit pointless? Would +1D to violent engagement roll perhaps fit better?
Reputation:
Why not annotate crew reputation options (like for background)?
Triangles:
You could put triangles in front of systems (and crew), so that when crew advances you can either tick 2 boxes or 1 triangle… [makes life a lot easier, and no need to recheck book]
Crew System:
You could move some of the Crew gear to Crew ‘System’ and limit to spends there?
Home Cooking:
who is ‘you’ here? Should everyone spend 1 downtime, or just ‘the cook’?
Ship Gear/Crew Gear – Ah I see what you mean now. These are just subsections. Yeah that stuff’s fine. We just needed a title to group those under. I think Aux/Ship gear is fine for now.
The lists are interesting, but won’t happen. The big thing you need to understand is that many of those items it’s unclear if/how you acquire (say a cloaking device, or a capital weapon). So if you want to get it, you need some narrative context for how you get it because your ship isn’t designed to take one, and very likely you have no idea how to get one. If you make a list and put it under engines, people will just want to check it and that’s simply not how it works.
Crew Quarters: Most ships are actually a lot like boats (that’s why they’re called ships). Some are huge, and have quarters because you’ll be at sea for a few months, but your small patrol boat isn’t designed to be lived on for a long time. It might have a couple cots in case you’re stuck in a storm overnight, but you don’t live there.
It takes a week to get out to a system gate, and there’s plenty of stops along the way. Beds are not required usually. Making a small 1-room workshop is different than making 5 full rooms with bathrooms, sleeping areas etc. If it really bugs you – just tell everyone they have quarters and they don’t have to pay for it.
And passengers is how Star Wars starts. What the Enterprise always carries. Things Farscape has. It’s a very common trope.
Jump Drive: All the player ships do have jump drives you’re right. But most ships don’t actually. Most ships will move goods and people around a given system, and if they have to jump, they’ll have to hire a tug with a jump drive to pull them through (this is in the sector description). It’s one of the fictional conceits of the game. There’s crafting rules for tweaking your in-system engines, and such. But work on the jump drive is usually only done by the Starsmiths – and requires handling precursor tech. The crew is not going to be upgrading their jump drive any time soon.
Repair: It generally doesn’t suck to play a mechanic. Couple things.
1. Ships don’t get broken all the time (many jobs are planetside) so you don’t lose as many actions as you’re worrying.
2. The ship has cred. When you make money from a job the mechanic can just take cash out of the ship and fix stuff. There’s no need to write anything special for that – most tables just naturally do it.
Training: Haha ^_^ You’re absolutely right. We noticed that when we were writing up 1.7. We’ll fix it.
Armory: Most classes have one fine weapon. But this also applies to the standard (white) gear. Means a mechanic can use a fine gun, and a mystic doesn’t just use fine blades. I’ve seen crews like speaker/mechanic/mystic and this was a big upgrade for them. If it doesn’t benefit your crew – don’t worry about it (they don’t have to take it). It’s definitely important for some more than others.
Reputation: We’ll talk about it. I think we wanted to leave options to take non-standard reputations but it might be an idea.
Triangles: Reworking the slashes doesn’t really work visually. This isn’t a bad idea, but it won’t happen for layout reasons.
I think you have a bunch of interesting UI comments. But what it might boil down to is … you want a back to print on the ship that has the crew upgrade steps, and the list of modules. And we might be able to do something like that. So you can print the ship on the front, and the rules for upgrding it and lists of gear on the back. It’s something we’ll talk about. See if it’s doable.
List:
Illegal items can be done in italics, or with a star or between brackets.
Engineer:
I fear the engineer will be ‘forced’ by group pressure to take the ‘0 cred repair’ upgrade first, and then spend all his/her downtime repairing.. Especially since the pilot has option to damage systems for boosts.
Reputation: Just like classes they have an open line for background but with ‘default’ option written below.
Crew Quarters:
Agree that some small ships dont have them. But any PC starting ship does. Hence no need to mention them, except when you have MANY or EXTRA crew/passenger quarters .
Engineer: This has never happened in any play or AP report I’ve seen. And if it does that’s a table issue, and needs to be resolved by talking to your friends rather than rules. It’s not a design problem.
Reputation: I’ll talk about it with John and see what he thinks.
Crew Quarters: No actually. PC ships do not by default have individual rooms for the Crew except the Firedrake. You can take it but it’s not assumed. I’m really not sure why you keep saying that.
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Engineer: ok, I admit having played with a few powergamers who would ‘game’ this system. Hence I might ‘kneejerk’ to prevent that kind of abuse.
Crew Quarters: Yep, you’re right. Personal bias. Agree you can easily make them ‘free’. Better question whether they should be Axiliary or Hull. Auxiliary has advantage they are all on sheet.. not really important anymore.
Starting Abilities: Why lock in the starting ability? Why not give free choice and as in default BitD suggest first one might be really good start?
Downtime: I was thinking of creating a downtime options overview for players. Or is there one planned?
Debt Clock: Wouldnt a clock be needed next to the crew debt (for paying debt)? Else GM must keep track seperate from ship sheet.
Quote p45:
“The Faraday: Crew 1, Engines 2, Hold 2, Weapons 1. Gambits: 3 (Ship 2+1 Scoundrel: Serendipitous) “
Hold 2? Hull 2, you mean?
Overindulgence/Debt:
Overindulgence is done by ‘single’ player. Which cost him 4 cred (from personal supply) or 2 debt (for ship), correct?
“You”: In the text something you means ‘your character’ and sometimes “your crew”?
Creds: There are more things where strict cred-costs are given for (modules, upkeep, advancement, downtime etc). Is an overview planned?
Damage: A random system damage table might be nice aid for stumped GM.
.
When it comes to starting abilities, I don’t see it as an issue. It just provides a little more distinction between the archetypes and provides something to give up if you want to be more than cosmetically Xeno.
Note that in comparison to the base BitD, you start with an extra special ability. You get one fixed (the “starting ability”) and then still choose one “special ability”. So don’t think of it as a choice that was thrust upon you, think of it as a perk of the playbook (since there is no other way to get it), just like the specialized equipment list.
🙂 Thx, looking at it that way makes perfect sense.
Starting Abilities: Charlie is right. Also it’s a genre thing. There are some very strong archetypes, and niches in space opera.
Downtime: The overview is on the second handout sheet.
Debt Clock: Maybe. The GM keeping track of that is something we like. Makes it a bit more unpredictable. We’ll talk about it.
Quote: Yes. That’s supposed to be Hull.
Overindulgence: No. Not cred. Stash. And if they can’t pay it they do have to put the burden on the ship.
“You” is used both as plural and singular in english. It can be both. Should be clear from the context.
Creds: No.
Damage: I’ll see if we have room somewhere in the next version ^_~
“You”: Sometimes the contextual implication of ‘you’ is hard for me as non-native. And especially when it’s the difference between 1 (single you) or 4+ (plural you) downtime actions..
Down Time: You mean GM-handout p14? Wouldnt such overview also help players? Also isnt inventing schematic (special long term), crafting from schematic (single downtime and, modification of item (single downtime) missing?
Rig from Upkeep: Result 4-5, “Damage a system, but it’s minor. A jury-rig can solve it.” Does that damage require a downtime action (but at 0 cost?)? Or is it a ‘free’ roll, with failure resulting in permanent (to be normally repaired) damage?
Playbook Downtime: Both Doctor and Mechanic have a roll requirement during Downtime (Mechanic takes a downtime, Doctor when others heal). Or should Doctoring someone during downtime als take a downtime?
Shouldnt the Pilot (a required crew member) also make a roll during downtime to avoid delay/ineffecient-fuel use? A pilot actually has a full time day job sitting on the pilot chair (assuming no AI auto-pilot)?
Overindulge: Why did you drop ‘Attract Trouble’ from overindulgence?
Ship Sheet: Character Playbooks can be folded in half.. Ship playbooks regretably not. In the next version will that be possible? [moving some of the tables, it can be]
At this point I apologize for asking too many questions..
[It’s just that it has been such a long time I so much liked a new system..I might be a bit over enthousastic]
Downtime: Yep. You can just print a copy for the players. That information isn’t secret and they probably want to know how heat and stuff is calculated anyway. There’s no need for an extra sheet.
Making a schematic is a long term project. Crafting … I guess it’s a different type of downtime action. Harper doesn’t put it in blades. I’ll think about it. It’s one of those weird things folks only do occasionally so I’m not sure if I’d put it on the sheet. Good question.
Rig from Upkeep: What’s unclear with the problem is that it’s not obvious. You don’t make a roll and have something explode as soon as you don’t pay upkeep. Generally it goes wrong when you’re mid mission and you REALLY need those engines to work. That type of damage doesn’t require a downtime, but it does require someone to fix it before you use the thing again (a good example of this would be the hyperdrive malfunctioning on the falcon and chewie/han trying to fix it mid-fight).
Playbook Downtime: The doctor doesn’t need to spend actions to treat others. Those people take the recovery action (which includes rest, taking medication, physical therapy, sitting in a tank of healing gel) but the doc just makes the roll. It’s a lot like you being sick, and going to the doctor. They see you for 15-30 minutes, but you have to take medicine regularly, watch your diet etc. Even if you’re in a hospital a doc comes by a couple times a day while you have to stay in bed.
Anyone can repair the ship, the mechanic is just better at it. Again, I’ve played with a dozen ships with no mechanic … so this isn’t really a big deal.
The pilot doesn’t need to waste actions piloting. If you’re not dodging pirates, or going through something dangerous, it’s a lot like a boat. You pick a heading, and really only need to pilot if you get an alarm, or need to enter/exit hyperspace lanes, land etc. If you DO have something dangerous that’s probably a job, or free play where you have to make rolls.
Overindulge: Our faction systems are different can cause some weird side effects. Also it can cause some weird story issues where going drinking causes Way creatures to appear. Generally the three choices we have seem to work ok and we didn’t feel we needed a 4th.
It’s ok ^_^ I’m glad you’re engaging with it. I hope my answers help (at least sometimes).
Thx.
My GM experience is that some players dont read the whole book. So if something isnt on a sheet, it’s the GM duty to tell them (and as GM I worry about so many things, that I sometimes miss to tell players about their rulebook options). Hence the smallest list of overview, removes that distraction.
How would you handle that ‘Rig from Upkeep’? If the players make that roll (like every roll in BiD) they know they have a failing system (for which they either search or plan their actions around). So the GM should roll for missed upkeep?
Wanted: Are the prison rules in effect? Can you drop wanted by going to jail?
Laying Low: I can imagine [like Firefly out of gas] you take a long route to avoid entanglements. How would you handle that if the players propose it?
[me: Longer routes means being locked up in ship, causing stress.]