How do you (or would you) play the Spider’s Weaving the Web ability?
It has two components:
1. Gain +1d to Consort when you gather information on the target of a Score.
2. Gain +1d to the engagement roll for that operation.
In today’s game, our Spider Consorted with a contact in order to gather information. He failed the roll (rolled 1-3). Later, at the start of the Score, the players argued that the Spider should get the +1d to the engagement roll even though the Consort roll failed (the Consequence from the failed Consort roll was social Harm, i.e. “Nasty Rumors” as a Level 2 Harm).
My initial reading suggested that the two components are somewhat contingent. As long as there was a partial or full success, the engagement roll bonus can be applied. But if the Consort action fails, then no engagement bonus.
I eventually sided with the players, but I’m having second thoughts. On their reading, the Spider gets +1d to Consort rolls to gather info and then, regardless of success, always gets +1d to any and all future engagement rolls for effectively all of their Scores.They see the two components as separate, not connected.
What do you think?
There’s no “if the Consort roll is successful,” condition, so I say you always get the +1, as long as you made an effort to gather info by COnsorting. Now, maybe if you failed the roll, the consequence is that your target knows your after them and thus has info that will effectively negate your +1 on the engagement. THat seems like a totally reasonable consequence. But you went with the Harm, which is also fine, but consequence enough. They took the ability, give them the benefit of it.
Thanks, Thomas. I agree that denying the +1d to engagement on a failed Consort roll is a good consequence.
But what if they don’t roll to Consort at all? I think that’s the interpretation they’re leaning towards. The Spider could do nothing in the lead-up to the Score (or roll other social skills, like Sway or Command) and that wouldn’t influence the +1d to the engagement roll.
Oh, my interpretation is that you need to Consort for a gather info to get the +1d to the engagament. From the ability: You gain +1d to Consort when you gather information on a target for a score. You get +1d to the engagement roll for that operation.”
“For that operation” implies that you only get the bonus for operations for which you gathered info by consorting.
That was my read, too. I created confusion at the table because, as you noted, I was proposing a double penalty for the failed Consort roll (the already-taken Level 2 Harm and then the loss of the bonus engagement die). But it was our first time seeing this special ability in play and when the engagement roll came up, my brain kicked up the question I’m asking here. 😉
Also, Gather Information will usually be done as a downtime action with 1-3 being a limited success (read pages 34-35 for Fortune rolls and 36-37 for gathering info). No penalties are needed for 1-3 on a downtime action.
I agree, Joseph, but we were in Free Play. 😉
cool
The spirit of the game is that when a player has a bonus don’t prevent its use unless it fictionally doesn’t make sense. In the case Dave Turner describes I would allow the player’s to have the +1d to the engagement roll when tallying up the dice but based on the fictional positioning of the failed Consort roll could qualify for a -1d per the engagement roll rules for someone actively working against the crew. In any case you can just make a call at the table and talk to your player’s about it after the fact.
They get the +1d to engagement if they gathered info about the score. I realize that the roll was poor, but did they gather some info about it or not?
In practice, I usually make a gather info roll like that a fortune roll, so there’s no double penalty. On a 1-3, you just get a little info — there’s no bad consequence.
In your case, it sounds like the Consort roll was very dangerous, so getting hurt and also not getting the info was justified by the fictional situation, I assume.
Here’s a little more detail.
The Spider failed their Consort roll, which I think was Controlled. He was speaking to a contact in the Circle of Flame. As a consequence, I offered the Spider the chance to press on from a Risky position. I also said that the contact (Rafello the painter) wasn’t in the mood to Consort, so the Spider would have to try a different Action. He chose Command (threatening to tear the painter’s work-in-progress with a palette knife) and rolled a partial success (I think). So the painter gave the Spider some helpful information. After the Spider left, an angry Rafello spread nasty rumors about the Spider as a consequence (Level 2 Harm, “Nasty rumors”).
Our group’s not in the habit of using fortune rolls to gather information, but I’ve been reading and thinking about that section of the book more. Our group’s still Tier 0, though, so suggesting a fortune roll (which would be 2d6, take the lowest, no?) would not sit well with them.
I see now that the Fortune Roll section of the book suggests using the PC’s action rating, not their Tier, as the dice for a gather information Fortune Roll. We weren’t aware of that option. It might be more palatable to the group.
Yeah, a fortune roll can use any trait.
Sounds like the PC did gather information, so they’d get the +1d to engagement for that score.