Pushing for +1 effect after the roll
The example of play Showdown at the docks ends with Canter pushing for +1 effect and taking 2 stress, which bumps his result to extreme effect. But, he does this after the roll, while the GM is describing what the result of the roll is.
I always assumed you had to push for +1 effect before the roll. I think the rules could be clearer here. Particularly because the rules reiterate repeatedly when you can push for +1d (before the roll).
I know the example might be an edge case, because effect is established before the roll. However, crits and reduced effect happen pretty regularly so calling this option out may be worthwhile.
For example, page 13 under Pushing Yourself could mention you can push for +1 effect before or after a roll, maybe even comparing to pushing for +1d which needs be before the roll.
The Action Roll procedure could also have a single line, for example on page 22 under step 6 Roll the dice and judge the result as well as in the Action roll summary.
Pages 24-5 under Assessing factors, where it mentions pushing yourself for increased potency or +1 effect might also mention you can do that before or after the roll.
To me it makes sense to push for effect after the roll, since a) whether you even get any effect or not depends on the result of the roll and b) I think if you’re taking stress for a thing then you should get the thing.
O I agree. I don’t want to argue against pushing for effect after the roll, I just think the rules could be clearer if it is an option.
I think John leaves this intentionally flexible. Normally yes, it’s all done before the roll, but if it make sense to add effect in later…
See this blurb on page 144: Allison used her fine spirit mask after the roll, to increase the effect of her result. Would you let a player do this, or do you think they should have to declare use of their items before they roll?
Thanks Sean Nittner. Reading the Showdown at the docks example it just jumped out at me that maybe I missed something about when you can push for effect. That question on p144 makes John’s intentions clearer. A little extra on the last question on p40 (which is asking about the effect of Canter’s roll) could work the same way, like “… Would you let him push after the roll?”
I’m fine with post-additions, especially when learning the game. Planning and gear are abstracted and a player can invest in a flashback to mold circumstances, all because they’re bad-ass professional criminals. I see pushing yourself after an action as more of the “It’s not me, it’s my character!” mindset. Besides, Stress is a precious resource.
I often ask players if they’re using items they haven’t mentioned, especially if the character would do so. Such as, “Is Doll using her spirit mask while looking through the Wall?”. Of course she is, she’s a whisper! Players, like GMs get overwhelmed/hyper-focused/distracted/etc., and I see no reason not to lend a helping hand. The Dusk is cutthroat, the GM shouldn’t be.
The “questions to consider” after examples of play is brilliant. Instead of using examples to show The Right Way to play the game, John uses questions to illustrate how flexible the system can be in supporting a range of rules interpretations and approaches in GM style.
He could have just said this, but asking questions with alternative examples illustrates it more effectively.
Sorry for the tangential comment, but it’s such a clever technique it’s worth pointing out. And, getting back to the point, it means the answer to Oliver Granger’s question is “whatever you think works best in your game”.
I always allow for pushing after the roll, and wrap it into the narration how they almost blow it, but manage to pull it off.
And allowing a push to bump up effect after the roll encourages players to burn through their stress more, which encourages them to indulge their vices more, which is just great.
Ben Morgan , you’re a good advice machine!