So, something I’ve noticed after a half dozen or so games:
The “what’s the score/what’s the plan” design of a session is really helpful for GMs like me who struggle with “coming up with something interesting” for the players to engage with. It let’s thing jump to the action in a fun way that makes episodic play very accessible.
That said, I’ve also noticed that inter-character and NPC-PC drama tend to fall by by the wayside. While the AW “ensemble cast, shared space, shared hardships” design specifically targets this type of play, the “what’s the score” model has, in my experiences, pushed this mostly off the table. Out of all the sessions I’ve run, precisely zero have ended with someone checking off the “express your character’a flaws, obsessions, etc.” advancement option. Obviously, this isn’t bad, it’s just seems to be geared towards a different style of game.
So, that’s what I’ve seen in my games this far. I’m curious to hear if this experience has resonated with others, or if said character drama has grown out of the “what’s the score” design in your games.
This lines up well with my limited experience so far. Like you said, not a flaw at all, just an observation about how the heist/teamwork mechanics impact gameplay.
I think the centrality of the crew also contributes. PCs are parts of the whole. Drama doesn’t help the crew do what it does best, only what each PC uniquely brings to the table, mismatched principles or hurt feelings be damned. The in-game drama I’ve seen occur is normally only as deep as how people think they should make their next play, or how the group prioritizes risks.
Another element of it may be the scoundrel-focus. Drama sort of assumes people have ideals and bonds, while scoundrels need neither, and are likely better off with neither. Everyone in the setting is just using everyone else, even crew-mates, so there’s no room to take anything personally, hence little drama.
Adam Minnie, your last line makes me think it would be fun if blades had a “betrayal mechanic”
Hmm, in my games people usually get the “Express your character’s flaws, obsessions, and shortcomings” point, and it’s been sort of considered the freebie “good roleplaying” award. People tend to go slightly off book, take some of the drugs they find on the job, that sort of thing.
Something I noticed about the planning system is that it doesn’t actually have any mechanical impact… so it’s not really a mechanic, it’s a tool to help you keep the game moving, but if your group is having fun planning in another way, I don’t see any obligation to pick a plan and cut to the action.
I’ve had similar experiences after six games or so. What if npc / inter personal drama were injected via the devil’s bargain mechanic?
Although in one of our games we’ve played a number of scores that came about from some npc relationships, provoked by entanglement rolls. That was with a group of players very experienced with PbtA games though.
Well, i didnt just said to the Players that some dude approached them for a job. The start was, where are you? In the Lair. Whats the Situation? We are out of money. Ok what do you do?
Thereafter, each single one tried to find jobs on their own, leading to a kind of massiv setting narration, introducing 4 factions which they interact with.
Nearly all players expressivly played out their vices, leading in disturbing situations.
I’ve offered DBs that way Dan 🙂
In our games Jamil, the players seem to cut straight to the action via the planning, but also trigger their flaws xp….
I consider this in part to be a desire to highlight protagonists over situation. I like to remind folks of their flaws and deeper intention via provocative questioning. It has become a staple GM tool post AW being released into the wild, particularly the whole concept of ‘sometimes disclaim decision making’ (and often ask the other players for the answers).
So I guess (in our games) the tool of being able to cut to the chase of a heist via the plan mechanic, along with a combination of MC moves actually facilitates deeper character expression and raw protagonist moments in spite of the ‘team’ facade of the game’s premise.
My advice if you want to trigger the Flaw XP? Ask lots of questions about the characters! Particularly in the midst of a heady action scene. Inject emotion and ethics and morals into EVERYTHING.
This is such a great conversation, thanks all : )
It’ll be interesting to see if these more drama oriented aspects start to manifest in the games I’m playing over the course of more sessions.
Well, If you are the GM, I am sure drama will arise if the possibilities are there. I often let some minor events taking place and see if the players like to interact. On the otherside, I have not one D&D fan in my group, so most of them come from a very narrativ orientated gaming style. Which is working well for me. Others may need more pushes to devellop more dramatic aspects.
This is good feedback. My own games of Blades have always included character drama stuff, so I’m thinking about ways to highlight how we do that in the text.
One aspect is downtime. We’ve often had very significant character story stuff in the scenes regarding vice or when someone goes to their friend to gather information.
It’s very player-driven, though. If the players don’t pursue character goals, or express their character’s flaws or desires, then it won’t come up. It’s not really something the GM can manufacture.
I think this comes from getting used to the system more than anything else. The first few sessions can feel a little rough, particularly if you feel like you are supposed to use the mechanics all the time. It’s easy to spend too much time rolling dice, and not give the players enough time between rolls to breathe and figure out what their characters really want.
Well, i have the oposite problem, that we may roll too less? Do i dont get faster into scores.
Anyway, judging from John Harper comments, I had the feeling that a lot of betatesters may have been more used to post AW Games. Some of the problems raising up in the community are resolving around the strong need of examplaric fluid AP exsamples beyond the Heist/Scores which got focused into the QS.
I dont expect a how to GM section, that would be utterly boring. But looking back at my work with Jason Lutes on his Book Perilous Journey and the insight I got there, I for the opinion that evocative Tables, snippets of narrations (Star Forces, Ghost Lines Rumor Tables etc.) would enrich the tools that the GM requieres for a balanced play.
We got the Toolbox so far about Scores and this deeply affected the results of gaming. Examples and rules focused a lot on them.
We got near to nothing about examples of Vices within Duskwall in a practical way, and only one page about Spectrology and so on. All work that sure will be included in the full book. its a Quickstart, nothing more. This is by no means a critic, just a reflection on the fact how much the material given to us guided a certain style of game or the lack of other aspects, which might be surprising for John.
Speaking of Jason’s book, I think a section about storyhooks and ideas for Daily hounted encounters could be nice. Things that follow the aspect to paint the World with a hounted brush.
Andrew Shields has done a great work there with his ideas among others. Wouldnt mind to do such within the community instead of staring at John for more content 😛
One of the ways this happened a lot in the playtests was during down time we tended to point fall out of partial or failed rolls into personal drama. So there’s a GM tool. Have vice and entanglements point the characters towards drama.
As a player tool start a project clock for a personal project you want to achieve. Have it be something that interests you about the world. A lot of the GM best practices tell you to play “curious” but that’s true for players as well.
As a player, what do you want to learn about? The long and sordid history of the Red Sashes? Why the Lamprey’s changed their name? How to craft white iron? Set up a project clock on it. Spend your downtime on it. Give yourself a “B” plot. Make the whole table curious about what you’re doing. Make us want to see more of it on screen.
Dylan, thats all in it, true. I just think a lot of people needing more directions into such possibilities. Its not that much visible for players and GMs alike who comes from a less narrative driven background. Entanglements, Vices, and failed Rolls, consequences and devils bargain. Its all there before us to be use as Drama and narrativ tools, or somehow they are just a roll and forgotten between scores and mechanical Downtimes.