1. Can/should seizing a claim (specifically turf) be available as a long term project?
2. Can Crew upgrades (equipment rigging, workshop, etc) be able to be seized as a long term project?
1. Can/should seizing a claim (specifically turf) be available as a long term project?
1. Can/should seizing a claim (specifically turf) be available as a long term project?
1. I’d say no. It should be a job.
2. Again I’d say no.
Sure. Long term projects are meant to be things that break the game. They’re long and arduous and resource draining and more indirect and not necessarily any safer than going on a score (remember you still have to roll to progress your projects and there can absolutely be shifts in position effect and the existence of consequences) so they can do pretty much anything as long as the players can explain it in the fiction, pay the resources necessary, and roll to acquire it.
My rule of thumb regarding whether something can be a project or should be a job is: is there risk involved? I have allowed both claims and crew upgrades to be obtained via projects, within reason. Stuff like Workshop, Quarters, Secure, or Vault are fairly reasonable.
I like the way Ben Morgan framed it.
A similar way of thinking about it is that a long term project is appropriate if the only barriers to success are time and resources.
I would like to add: Is it cool to see it on screen or not? Want the players to play to find out or is it more on the boring side of the game. That is something the table has to decide.
/sub
Risk is a key factor, I feel.
And since Turf has to, by definition, be TAKEN from someone else, I would say that risk is inherent, and Turf by LTP should not be an option.
Long Term Projects are neither inherently risk free nor must be handled off screen.
… maybe you don’t take Turf from someone but you’re given it, with a lot of strings attached, like dealing drugs for the lampblacks but more coin for them as a tithe? That may be a LTP crawling up to Bazso or doing him favors. As usual: If you bring a good story to the table, it may be a valid option to use a LTP for that.
The idea came up when a scoundrel decided to start working with the locals around their lair. He wants to do chores for them, offer some food and generally make a positive name for the crew in the area. To me, this sounds like he is gathering look outs and (non-combat) guards for the lair. But it could also represent a subtle, slow capture of turf.
This also got me thinking about the Acquire Asset downtime activity, and the woo’ing of a doctor into permanent employment. Which, if I allow it, other crew upgrades could be gathered by the individual scoundrels. I can easily see the cutter gaing a following of a local gang of thugs, and the shadow training up a crew of street kids lurks.
I think the clocks would be large, if I allow it. At least an eight section clock, maybe averaging around 12 or 20. What do yawl think?
John Williams yep. Large clocks multi clocks. Taking a claim might be 2 12 clocks or something substantial. They are trying to break the game.
Yeah, I would consider Turf to be the major exception to the rule. Turf always has to be taken as a job.
John Williams Another way to look at your scoundrel’s actions is that it is an attempt to improve their standing with the citizens of the area. Not a Claim, but a +1 with the Citizens of Charhollow or wherever. The mechanics of positive faction relationships reflect well what you say he wanted to achieve.
I’m seeing more than one person here claim that LTPs are NOT risk-free, which confuses me; I thought that was the whole point of them. When you use a downtime action to work on a project, the WORST result you can get is that you only fill 1 slice of the clock; there’s never a “fail” condition for that action, as written. (Right??)
Where’s the risk? Am I grossly misinterpreting a rule?
I understand it the same way you do, Rebecca. Downtime actions by their very nature are all safer and quieter and have no position, effect, or consequences. You can do other things during downtime that work like normal action rolls, but that’s not what the actual, specific, codified downtime actions are for. Perhaps a long-term project unlocks the ability to make some action rolls with consequences to take a claim, but I’ve always viewed taking a claim as a major enough imposition on another faction that it warrants a score of its own. Remember, the city is carved up between larger, stronger factions, and every claim is owned by someone. Long-term projects are great for information gathering to set up that score though!
I also do not allow upgrades to come from LTPs. The crew can get something like an upgrade, or something like a special ability, and I’ll use those as barometers for how to work the rules. But the upgrades and special abilities on the sheet already have their own way to be acquired.
+Rebecca W and +Nihzlet
The way I understand how the others are talking, the risk is either a narrative one (more on that in a sec), or done as part of the action.
In the narrative, the scoundrel is interacting with other factions and there is always a chance of problems. Gathering information may tip off the target, an asset acquired came from someone else who may resent its temporary loss, and a trip to the physicker may tell enemies you are weak. The GM would assign the risk, which may not be tied to the dice roll.
Part of the action is lightly touched on on page 36, where the GM calls for a Prowl roll to get the scoundrel close enough to use Study. As an action roll, horrible consequences are possible. How this works for your game is up to your GM.
Again, this is just how I see it.
Rebecca W
I think a lot of people are interpreting “roll one of your actions” as the mechanics of how action rolls function has not been explicitly broken, and that there is always a chance of consequences on action rolls.
But the play example also doesn’t make it clear because the character rolls a 4, fills in two segments on their project but no consequences are assigned. It’s not clear if that was left out on purpose or if it was for editing.
I feel like the intent of long-term projects is probably laid bare in the RollPlay game of Blades John ran, but I wouldn’t know which episode to start looking through (I only just started watching).
John Williams your example from page 36 is invalid — that’s not a downtime action. That’s a gather information roll. To give a counter example, consider the start of the downtime action chapter, on page 145: “During the action of the score, the PCs are always under threat… Downtime gives them a reprieve so they can catch their breath and relax a bit”.
And the mechanics of the downtime rolls are already different from regular action rolls — why would we assume normal action roll mechanics are in play here? Even page 153 specifies that “Activities on the downtime list are limited; normal actions are not”. Normal actions are separate, that’s a clear distinction. Clearly downtime activities are NOT normal actions.
Of course it does eventually come down to how your GM runs things; Blades is flexible enough to deal with any approach in this regard which is one of the things I love about it. But to me, looking at the rules it seems pretty cut-and-dry what the intent was. Not that anyone can’t defy said intent(or that people can’t correct me or find proof otherwise, I’m far from infallible), but it just seems obvious to me.
I did miss the limit on downtime actives, so good catch Nihzlet. I think you and the others are right; per the rules, Downtime activities do not include claims, assets, or crew upgrades. Allowing such would fall into the realm of ‘house rule’, which is not a bad thing.
While I can see a discussion on acquiring assets (and maybe Crew Upgrades) via a Long Term Project, taking a claim isn’t something I am okay with. Thank you to everyone who commented.