Hi. New player to BitD. I’m very excited about this game and can’t wait to run it, but there are some things I’m just not getting. I’ve read the book and watched the Roll Play Blades series in it’s entirety, but I’m still stuck.
Another thread here asked about combat examples and most of the answers pointed to the youtube series’, and again, I’ve watched (and enjoyed) all 80 hours of the show, and yet combat still eludes me. I would so love to see a half dozen or so clearly written examples of combat.
Watching Roll Play Blades, it appears as if John Harper sometimes uses clocks to track enemy health, and sometimes just seems to have enemies die after taking a couple of hits. Which is it, and how does it work?
During one combat with a group of dockworker thugs he was clearly using a clock to track them, but I couldn’t figure out how the clock mapped onto the actual health of the thugs. During a later encounter with the crew going up against a bunch of sailors on a boat, he was clearly just having them die individually after taking damage.
The book just isn’t clear about how combat is run and damage is tracked, and the problem with watching the youtube series is that you don’t get to watch what Harper is doing off screen as far as figuring out damage, or how his clocks relate to multiple foes, etc.
I’m chomping at the bit to run this game, but until I wrap my head around how combat is run I don’t even want to attempt it. Any help would be very much appreciated. I’m sure these questions have been asked before, so forgive me for asking again.
Combat works just like the rest of the game. There’s nothing special at all about it.
If an enemy takes a clock or a single roll or whatever depends on their relative strength (as measured by effect) and their narrative importance.
Fight a lowly thug of some equal-tier gang? Probably 1 roll.
Fight a bunch of highly-trained bluecoats while you have crappy quality 1 gear? Clock.
Fight a cunning master swordsman in a duel? A clock, and also you get some nasty consequences every time you act.
Fight the nemesis who killed your father 10 years ago? A clock.
Ambush a highly trained guard, but you don’t really care about playing this out, because there are demon cultists waiting inside, plus the PC has the advantage? Single roll.
Clocks don’t map to enemy health points. Enemies don’t have health points in Blades so there is no NPC damage to track.
Clocks can map to obstacles. Obstacles can be enemies (among other things like picking a lock, scaling a building, etc).
It helps to stop looking at combat as a separate phase of the game with different mechanics.
If the PCs are trying to deal with an obstacle, you as the GM decide how much effort the PCs need to put into overcoming said obstacle. More effort might mean the PCs need to fill in a clock.
So PCs engaging in combat is no different than PCs trying to crack a safe or convince a crowd to riot, etc. Sometimes it’s one roll and done, other times a clock is involved.
And one more thing on “damage tracking”: It’s the GM’s call on what needs to happen to remove enemies as obstacle to the PCs. They could just run away, or surrender, etc., they don’t always have to “die”. The actual number of enemies doesn’t matter as much as the positioning and effect level that the PCs have to contend with. A single bad ass NPC could provide just as much as a challenge as a gang of amateur thugs.
Coming from a world of old school games with “let’s roll initiative” calls by the gm I sympathize with your problem. It’s a bit hard to grasp but what Jakob Oesinghaus and Omari Brooks is true all the way: For blades, combat is just some obstacle and it’s resolved as described. Therefor you may have problems noticing “combat” in the videos because it just don’t stick out as it would in other games.
Thanks very much for the replies. It’s starting to get clearer and the answers here really helped. It’s hard to reprogram 30+ years of traditional rpg think.
If you wouldn’t mind going just a little deeper: One specific area I’m having trouble with is groups of foes and the way a clock can be related to them. For example, say the crew goes up against a half dozen or so enemies. The GM starts an 8 segment clock. Combat goes back and forth. Two or three of the bad guys get killed. So, when does the GM tick the clock? What if the foes all die before the clock fills, or what if the clock fills before all of them die? I’m assuming that when the final segment is filled in the remaining foes don’t just fall over dead.
Thanks again for the replies. The help is much appreciated and it’s starting to sink in.
The GM ticks the clock when the players make a successful roll to work on overcoming those foes, and the number of segments ticked is determined by their effect(limited=1, standard=2, great=3).
“What if the foes all die before the clock fills?” The clock tracks the fiction of overcoming those people. If they’re all dead, there’s nothing more to overcome, so this normally shouldn’t happen. They can keep on fighting until the clock is full. However, if there’s some freak demon occurrence where it makes sense that they would now all be dead, that’s what happens and the clock becomes irrelevant. Follow the fiction!
“what if the clock fills before all of them die? I’m assuming that when the final segment is filled in the remaining foes don’t just fall over dead.” That’s fine. The clock is about overcoming them, not about murdering them all. Maybe they run away, maybe they give up and offer a good deal if you let them live … it depends on the fiction.
Either way, once you have said “these people take an 8-clock to overcome”, I would highly recommend you stick to that and don’t cheat your players. Whatever else happens, these particular people are no longer a problem (for now, at least).
*Example 1: Simple Combat*
Clint is about to fight a street thug try in ng to mug him. The GM looks at the street thug and decides its a trivial enough challenge that a single roll will resolve it. Clint rolls Skirmish and the GM sets the position and effect as Risky, Standard. Clint gets a 6 and knocks the thug clean out.
*Example 2: Difficult Combat*
Clint is facing off against a high level Red Sash in melee combat. The Red Sashes are master swordsmen, trained in the Iruvian sword styles; so the GM decides that this foe warrents a clock to beat. He devises on a six segment clock. Clint decides hes gonna go at him with his own blade using Skirmish. The GM decides that this is Desperate, Limited due to the potency of the Sash being a master swordsman. Clint rolls a 6 (luckily) and fills in 1 segment on the clock for his limited effect. Seeing that the fight is going nowhere, Clint decides to push himself on the next roll to get Standard Effect instead. He rolls Skirmish and gets a 5. He ticks off 2 more segments on the clock, filling it half way, but takes a severe consequence for being in a desperate position. (And so on until the clock fills or Clint flees).
*Example 3: Group Combat*
Clint, Gears, Kronos and Candy are fighting off a gang of Billhooks. If the GM looks at the difficulty and decides this should be easy, a single group action to could finish the fight. If he thinks it should be harder, he starts a clock. When the clock fills the fight is won.
*Notes:*
* Using clocks makes a fight last longer. Do you as the GM want this to be a long, challenging encounter, or a short skirmish?
* Limited effect fills 1 segment on a clock; Standard fills 2; Great fills 3; Exceptional fills 5. (Exceptional is a crit with great effect).
* The players dont have to use Skirmish or even a combat roll to advance the clock. So long as it helps the battle, it’s fine for them to Wreck the environment to their favour, or Scare their enemies with a Command roll for example, and still fill the clock on a success.
Always think in terms of goals, not number of thugs or hit points. In one encounter the goal may be “Get Bailey out of the pub” – which can be the name of the clock. This may include a skirmish roll to punch the guy that just grabbed her arm, which advances the clock towards getting her out (it doesn’t really matter mechanically if he kills the guy, or just knocks him back, narrate whatever makes sense for the story, character and method of attack). A risky finesse/survey roll might help time and duck between two other fighters as Jake pulls her towards the exit. Jake rolls a 4 and the complication is that Bailey steps on a broken bottle and is limping now. Jake can resist it, but if he doesn’t, future attempts to move Bailey will have reduced effect. The door is blocked, which might be handled with a wreck roll to barge through it, a hunt roll as Jake shoots the bouncer in the knee and grabs his key, or a consort roll as he sweet talks the bouncer into giving him the key. the same clock gets ticked either way and you just decide how effective and what position the roll would be based on the narrative situation. The group could also decide that instead of trying to get Bailey out, they just want to kill everyone in the bar. If that’s their goal, then the clock might read “dead bar” and you might also start other clocks attached to the heat they’re generating by murdering people (like a clock for “reinforcements/bluecoats arrive”).
Another goal might be “Get to the vault” which is a 6 part clock. Keith wants to sneak past the two guards at the front gate by climbing the fence. Keith leads a group action with Tara and Rob and they have moderate effect on their risky roll and roll a 6, so they get by unnoticed, and Keith takes a stress for Rob’s failure (Rob the clod!) and ticks two segments on the clock. Rob spends a stress and does a flashback to get a floorplan of the building with timed guard patrolls using a sway roll on his buddy that works here, it has moderate success and he checks two more boxes on the clock. The way into the vault room is a bit more confined and as Keith goes to prowl around another two guards you reveal that it will be a desparate roll with limited effect as he creeps along the wall behind the guys. Rob offers to hunt one of the guards with a crossbow while Tara prowls to take out the remaining guard. Both are risky with limited effects. Rob rolls a 5, and you add a complication: the other guard looks up in alarm into Tara’s eyes, which will ruin her prowl move (you’ll make it have zero effect if she insists on prowling). Rob can resist the consequence and possibly take some stress as he tries to get the timing better. They can accept the consequence, which may leave Tara taking a desperate skirmish roll instead of the risky prowl roll she had planned, or Tara might still try the Prowl roll, but might take a devil’s bargain for increased effect (Rob screams a battle cry, distracting the guy and allowing her to backstab him as planned, except now they tick 3 ticks on the alarm clock as nearby guards go to inspect the comotion). You see how the fact that guards might or might not be dying is irrelevant. Players make rolls, clocks get ticked, the players advance toward their goals. If Rob decides to go on a murder spree now and hunt the front gate guards, you can start a new clock for “Dead front gate guards”, however this is kind of a waste of time, and it’s not really advancing the group toward their goal of the vault room, so I’d give Rob that new clock and have zero effect on the “Get to the vault clock.” If there is an “Escape the mansion” clock later, I might give the credit for the dead front gate guards if their plan is to leave out the front gate, I may give them 1-2 free ticks on this clock at that time. If a master fencer tries to stop their escape, you might start a new clock for “Evade the fencer” that might include just running from her, or just skirmish rolls. It may also be a combination as they wound her and then use her wounds to slow her down and escape with prowl rolls. Or they might just bribe her and use sway rolls and coin to get her to let the group leave. Or they might get first blood with a finesse roll, followed by a command roll as they threaten her and tick off the last ticks on the “evade the fencer” clock getting her to stand down as they walk away. There are so many ways to handle any challenge, and it’s up to you and your players to just track general progress on clocks and come up with stories explaining that progress.
In an actual recent battle in the game I run, The crew wanted to take over a Red sashes warehouse near the train in the nightmarket. They got a risky engagement roll as they approached through the sewer. I narrated them blowing the floor out of the place as a nearby train was unloading, providing cover sound. The cutter commanded a cohort and had them start the combat. I ticked a few segments on the “quiet warekhouse” clock (after each action, I also ticked a 6 segment “alarm” clock representing the noises of battle being heard after the train stopped unloading.The whisper made a finesse roll as he danced through the melee looking for priority targets and was distracted by a beautiful fountain of blood (the guy’s a crazy sadist/artist), resisting an incoming injury due to his moment of distraction. More ticks on the clock. The slide did a flashback to the moment where he talked a cargo worker into delivering a special package, he then popped open the crate, which had a Gatling harpoon gun from a leviathan ship in it (This might be game breaking in other situations, but when the guy came up with it, I went with the rule of cool). I treated this as an opportunity. The hunter then got into the gattling gun and did a desperate wreck roll with great effect (because of the opportunity provided by the slide – this would represent the last ticks on the quiet warehouse clock) and rolled two 6s. We narrated the harpoons flying through all the remaining red sashes and narrowly missing all pcs and that was the end of the encounter.
Excellent replies. Thank you very much. The examples and the focus on goals helps a lot.
One thing I noticed in watching the Roll Play Blades series was that I don’t seem to have a very good grasp of calling positions/effects. Every time the PC’s were about to roll for an action and Harper determined the position/effect for their roll I’d try to guess what they would be before he stated them, and invariably I’d get one or both wrong. I realize that there’s always going to be differences from GM to GM, but it’s troubling to be so wrong so many times. I’m assuming there’s no really good way to coach this and that it just has to be learned over time, but if anyone has any good tips I’d be glad to hear them.
Thanks again for the help!
I think you’re right that much of that is subjective. Basically position refers to the danger/risk level of the situation (a desperate social roll might result in being ostracized from a social circle, a desperate tightrope walking roll might result in death). Effect is just how much it advances their goal if successful. It took me a few sessions before I started including things like tier in these rolls appropriately. When you do, it starts to feel like you’re beating down your players, which isn’t usually my style as a GM. The thing is, with resistance rolls, the characters can take a lot. My advice is just to do it. Don’t be afraid to throw the characters through the ringer, the game is designed for it. If you make the game too easy, it’s no big deal either, but you’ll know it. Just know that you can always adjust position and effect to change pacing and feel of the game as you go.
David Redden When determining position, always think “How bad would it be if they failed the roll?”
When determining effect, always think “How good would it be if they succeeded the roll?”
Fighting in melee with a master swordsman is Desperate, because a failure means he can do some serious damage. It is also limited effect, because if the player does succeed, the master swordsman is good at defending himself.
Picking a lock with no pressure is controlled position. If you fail, not much can go wrong because you have a lot of time to work with. The effect would be Standard. i.e. if you succeed, it goes as well as you would expect it to.
Shooting a ghost with electroplasmic ammo would have a desperate position, because despite your ammo giving you an offensive advantage, the ghost is still a ghost who can cause serious damage to you. The effect would be great, because on a success the ammo is super effective against a ghost.
and so on.
Thanks again for the good advice. I’m heading out in just a few minutes to run my first game. Wish me luck!