I ran my first session of Blades in the Dark last night, starting with the War in Crow’s Nest setup and a score against a Red Sash drug den.
One thing that came up was that players with careful D&D backgrounds kept wanting to do things like listen at doors, which seemed sensible, but I was never really sure how to handle in the game’s mechanics. At first I had them make action rolls with Study or Survey, but that almost immediately didn’t feel right. Upon further reflection, those should have been Gather Information rolls (which I just wasn’t thinking about as something to do mid-score) if I wanted the amount of information they got to be variable, or else just no roll at all, and tell them what they hear.
We also definitely had some growing pains in figuring out the sweet spot for players being able to take narrative control. At one point, the players came into a room with a Red Sash guard, and a player wanted to have known this guard and had a prior relationship with him, and I wasn’t wild about that. We sort of negotiated it into a flashback with a consort+1 coin bribe for the guard to be in place and ready to take a fake punch in the nose and let the players past. Upon further discussion, we talked about how interesting coincidences (as opposed to deliberate recent planning) is more the realm of devils bargains or complication consequences. But even then it seems like those would be coincidences that cut against the players rather than happy coincidences that help the players out.
Thoughts?
Gotta disagree with you on the idea that the flashback was wrong. I think using a flashback to have already bribed a guard is a perfect use of the mechanic and may even be the example used in the book.
Now if that’s an unlikely thing to happen, that flashback is costing them 2 stress just to attempt. More than a fair trade.
On the subject of listening at doors, consider broadening the scale of the action a bit so that you aren’t talking about one door at a time.
If the party is listening at doors so that they don’t stumble upon guards while sneaking through a house, then just say “yep, you are checking at each door before progressing, no roll required” and have them roll Prowl for the sneaking. And that’s a queue to you that you should take their plans into account when handling consequences. They’re being careful, so they shouldn’t accidentally blunder into a guard room, but maybe they are taking so long that a guard notices the unlatched window they came through, raising a general alarm in the house. Or perhaps they spent so long that a guest (with a few of their own guards) comes and visits their target, so there is more risk.
If they are listening at doors to spy on people, again look at the overall goal of the action, perhaps we’re looking at Prowl again to find a good hiding spot where they can listen at a whole conversation. Perhaps it is a Hunt setup action that they are using to track all movement in the building making it easier for someone else in their crew to do whatever task they’re trying to do.
I’d lean away from “one door at a time” thinking. That’s a lot of chances for consequences and each individual door doesn’t seem like a success achieves much.
Justin Ford I’m sorry if I was unclear–we ultimately landed on a flashback to having bribed the guard and everyone was very clear that that is how the flashback rules are supposed to work. (Although should it have cost 1 coin in addition to the 2 stress?)
What we weren’t clear about was the player’s initial attempt at a flashback, which would have established that she knew the guard from a past relationship and his presence in the score was a coincidence.
Charlie Collins well, the goal of the listening-at-doors was not just to make sure they didn’t accidentally stumble into enemies, as they often chose to go through or pass by certain doors based on whether they heard anything. This is what leads me to believe that they are really trying to gather information, and what is at stake is the quality and quantity of information obtained, not the possible consequences of the information-gathering process itself.
But then if I stick with this logic, it seems like Survey and Study would be more often gather information rolls than action rolls, even in a score, and that doesn’t seem right.
I agree that listening-at-every-door doesn’t feel right for Blades in the Dark, but when my players are confronted with a door and they want to listen at it before deciding to go in or not, I’m not sure how to engage that fiction the right way in game terms. Maybe I was “doing it wrong” by presenting the score the way I did. They went into the drug den via an underground canal dock that they found through gather information and a Bluecoat contact, but they didn’t have information on the layout of the building or the location of the war chest they were looking for, so they were searching for it. not sure what I should have done differently, to be honest.
I also agree that 7 different action rolls with the potential for negative consequences seems like the wrong approach (they’re better off not listening, if the act of listening itself puts them at risk).
So if they are looking for blueprints, create a clock for “find blueprints.” That way players know what the goal is and that they should take action to further that goal. Even roundabout things like “sneaking stealthily” might further a clock like that.
If there’s no danger in listening at the door, don’t make them roll! Just give them a description.
Always be thinking in terms of outcomes for rolls as well as actions. If they say they are listening at the door, tell them what they hope to accomplish and then reframe the roll using that. If the response is “I want to hear if anyone’s on the other side” that might not require a roll or it might be a controlled roll with standard effect. If they say “I want to sneak around carefully listening at every door” that light be a more risky roll with variable effect.
One last thing: you can totally gather info with any action. PLAYERS choose which action to roll and you give them the effect and threat. If the action makes less sense, it’s within your right to say “sure, but it has no effect by default. How do you raise the effect to limited or higher?”
I thought the general rule was that players have a final say on whether the approach they have described is a reasonable one to solve the problem at hand, but the GM has the final say on what action roll it is.
Conrad William
“it seems like Survey and Study would be more often gather information rolls than action rolls, even in a score, and that doesn’t seem right”
Let’s say you rule that Survey/Study are gather information rolls more often than not. Why does that seem off? If the fiction dictates there is a variable amount of information that can be discerned use the mechanic that handles that.
Or are you trying to say there is something wrong with gathering information in the middle of a score at all?
Nope. The GM should not be saying “you have to roll study” or what have you. If the goal is to listen at the door and the player says “I want to use my find wrecking tools to crack the door open noiselessly and listen easily” that’s a really odd way to do the thing and you can discourage it but ultimately that should be done by giving them a very low effect and a high threat, not by saying “you can’t do that.”
It’s very clear in the book that players decide what action they are taking (and rolling) and GMs provide the risk and reward.
That said, it’s a hard habit to get into, even if you are used to narrative games like AW.
Gather Information roll and action roll are not mutually exclusive. If the information-gathering process carries a risk of consequences (it clearly does in this example), gathering info is an action roll.
If there’s no risk, it’s not an action roll. They just do it.
If they listen at the door and it’s obvious what they hear, tell them what they hear.
If it’s not risky, and not obvious, make a gather info roll to see how much they learn.
The GM sets the position and effect for actions. They don’t pick the action used.
The players pick which actions to roll by describing what their characters do. If they describe studying, they roll Study. If they describe wrecking, they roll Wreck.
If there’s a risk of being spotted while they’re studying, tell them about that risk and ask them what they’re doing about it. If they say they’re trying to stay hidden, then they’re Prowling too.
Don’t describe scores room by room. Describe them obstacle by obstacle.
I think this messed me up for awhile too. Gathering info can be certain effect, risky to do it (implying uncertain), or uncertain but also not risky
certain = tell them
risky = action roll
uncertain and not risky = fortune roll