The Church of Ecstasy of the Flesh…
Help me understand this. Or how to make tweaks to my game setting.
What myself and my players want is to have a faux-catholic inquisition type church similar to the Abbey of the Everyman from Dishonored or the Church of the Builder from Thief. I told my group that the Spirit Wardens are like the Overseers from Dishonored. Similar to Witch Hunters. And as a matter of fact I was going to make it a secret that Hulls are animated by spirits.
My group really likes this idea of the ancient occult versus controlling zealots.
My crew are weird Assassins allied with the Reconciled.
How does the Church of the Ecstasy of the Flesh fit in? First of all, I’m having a little difficulty understanding this faction as written. They’re the ‘state religion’ but also a secret society? They venerate Demons?
Seems completely at odds with the Spirit Wardens who they ally with. I want to rename the Church in my game to ‘The Church of the Everyman’ to make it more of a collectivist state religion that focuses on humility and industrious work ethic, refraining from vices or dabbling in the occult.
Are there other suggestions on how this would change the faction’s network and dynamics?
I’d look at their specific allies and enemies and see how that change in theme would alter their relationship.
To help explain it as it’s written:
At the core of the faction seems to be the fact that it’s an inversion of the usual christian-ish “spirit over flesh” type of fantasy church. Spirits are messed up as a semi-natural fact of the setting (see: mad revenge ghosts) and seen as messed up as an ideological tenet (see: the Reconciled are a fringe group). So, CEF worships the body.
Demons in this setting are also not really supernatural creatures, there’s no realm beyond where they come from. They’re, uh, hyper-natural creatures, using abilities that are extensions of natural elements. In theological terms, they’re nothing but sweet sweet body. So, CEF worships the demons.
How does this affect their day-to-day doctrine and proffered morality? The book does not really specify in great detail – the Empire seems to run primarily on its civil institutions, adventurous nobility, and military power. The fact it’s run by a literal immortal god-king probably significantly decreases the need for divine mandate from other sources.
What we do know about the Church is that it has a public front and more secret interests, that it has graded but obscured membership, and that nevertheless ascension through the ranks in the Church is a legitimate means of political advancement. I assume this works primarily because the empire and Duskvol are run by an oligarchy, and the select few in the know, well, know the other select few in the know.
That provides a lot of fodder for deep late-game machinations, but yeah. It’s not fully obvious what the presence of the church is like, day to day, so you’re free to make whatever decisions you like on that front.
I’ve also been a bit confused about the role of the church. I presumed that the demon worship part was restricted to the more secret levels of the organisation. But the idea of celebrating the flesh seems at odds with down-to-earth nature of the common folk of (for example) Barrowcleft and Charhollow. Are their church services drunken orgies? If not, what are they?
I assume this has come up before, so if anyone has any links to more detailed explanations from John Harper or anyone else, I’d be keen to see.
I see the demonic aspects as “higher level” stuff. After all, I don’t believe you want the masses trafficking with demons, or attempting to. So, the true powers in the Church deal in the demonic, in the hopes to transcend to such a state. At the very least, being strung along by a demon’s promise of immortality would be very tempting to the zealous.
They’re allies with the Wardens because let’s face it, power calls to power. I’ve come to view alliances as strictly that, not necessarily friendship. The Wardens may not know of the deepest secrets of the Church and vice versa, but I would find it difficult to believe they don’t spy on each other.
If the Wardens are aware of the Church’s demonic proclivities, they may not care (demons are both rare and well, not spirits) or they do care and tolerate it. Hell, the Church might be a macro-sociology project by the Emperor that’s surveyed by the Wardens.
At its most benign the Church focuses on life, warmth and the joys of both. In a world broken by death and spiraling down, are those such bad things?
Thanks for the explanation guys, helps a lot. I kind of saw the Wardens as the pseudo-inquisitional chapter of the church.
Or rather, that’s how I’m leaning in my game. I want to make the church the typical oppressive faux catholics that teach the masses to be humble, submissive, and hard workers. While the wealthy aristocracy benefits from it in the upper echelons of the church.
If I just rename the CEF as the “Church of the Everyman”, is there any other suggestions you would suggest to achieve what I’m trying to do?
Saul Alexander One of the definitions of “Ecstasy” is relevant here: “mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.”
“The flesh” also does not carry the same meaning as it does in our culture – as the naughty counterpart of the put-together “spirit”. Entirely possible for it to have exactly the same general ‘stay meek, you chill little lambs’ approach.
But yeah, it’s position in the text is weird. The main function of the church seems to be the same as it is in the thiefy games – to disapprove of the things the protagonist is likely to do; whereas the precepts and beliefs of the church seems to be such that it’s not at all obvious if it’d care in any way.
For the purposes of the OP, though – the Church does have a very clear aversion to ghosts, even if it does not for the occult in general. If your crew is aligned with the Reconciled, that’s enough for conflict.
It certainly feels atypical of churches in dark fantasy games. It also seems notable that in John’s two broadcast games, basically the only time we see the church onscreen is when a particular character goes into a sub-basement to worship one of the old gods. It definitely appears to be an organisation having an identity crisis.
Having done a bit more digging around (and started Season 2 of The Last Word), it feels to me like its actually not that widespread a religion for the common folk. I think it being the “state religion” may have misled me (and some others) , but it seems like all of its real adherents are corrupt nobles. The common folk are maybe in favour of it because they like seeing ghosts get destroyed, but they don’t really give it a lot of thought beyond that. That’s my current impression.