Anyone have some examples they’re willing to share of Social based Scores?
I gave my players a job offer from an angry merchant who wanted to make The Hive pay for not letting him into their club, but they turned it around on me and want to double cross the merchant, trying to get back on The Hive’s good side by bluffing the merchant that they’ll take the job, but then selling him out by telling The Hive about the plans.
The crew is currently at -2 status with The Hive, so it won’t be easy, but I’m not sure what I want to do with it. I’m thinking I want to run a scene of them making contact/setting up the meeting (the Engagement Roll), meeting with the bigwigs, maybe a threat from the 2nd in command, possibly trying to kill the PCs, that the leader doesn’t know about, then whatever resolution falls out. I’m not sure how that feels different from stuff done during Free Play, though. Any thoughts? I also considered having one of The Hive’s enemies stage an attack while the players are meeting with them.
I’ve got a few questions: The merchant wanted the Hive to pay by the players doing what exactly? How was the Hive vulnerable?
The PCs are betraying the Merchant now, but what is the evidence of “the plans”? What would make the Hive believe it’s authentic?
Is it possible that the Hive would be satisfied with the PC’s “bending the knee” so to speak? Are things so bad that the Hive would expend resources to kill the PCs without actually being at war?
The merchant got ahold of information regarding a shipment of goods from one end of the city to the other, supposedly just containing basic supplies for one of the Hive’s brothels in Silk Shore, but the merchant believes that it actually contains more lucrative drugs and luxury goods. The merchant wanted them to loot or sink the barge. He doesn’t care about getting anything from the barge, just that the Hive loses it.
I was thinking that if the PCs tell The Hive’s leader, Djera, what they know of the barge it would be enough to prove that the merchant, whom the Hive is aware of and greatly dislikes, knows of their plans and they’d be willing to believe that the merchant would do something like this. Plus, the players intend to collect payment from the merchant after the Hive spreads the false rumor that their boat got sunk. (The Hive has yet to agree to this plan, but I think the plan is decent.) If a representative of the Hive is present when the merchant pays the PCs, it would be proof of his ill intent.
As for the Hive’s possible attempt on the lives of the crew, I was thinking that Djera and her 2nd (can’t remember his name) would be of separate minds, as he is more concerned with wrapping up the security breach (that the crew is now a part of) and she is more interested in turning foes into agents.
Hmm, it’s hard to offer advice without knowing what the players are planning: I’m not convinced this is explicitly a social score, for example–the players could run a con-game where they pretend to run a score against the Hive, but don’t, and the whole score becomes how they trick the Merchant (or everyone). Which could be a Stealth or Deception score.
One alternative that your description evokes for me, is the players organizing a meet with someone from the Hive, to have a sit-down where they sell out the Merchant. I think a good way to handle that would be to just start at the meetup: ask what social connection they’re using, make the engagement roll, and then use that to determine what foot the meet starts off on: 1-3 means the Hive has little patience for them, and might attempt to leave the table early, 6 means they’re willing to listen, etc.
And then have the players use flashbacks to acquire evidence or otherwise build their case. This is the part that’s hard to offer ideas for, since I don’t know what the Merchant wants the PCs to do, or how we was hurt by the hive. But the players could dig up history on the Merchant, find out where he’s been, maybe steal some correspondence he’s had with other groups trying to set up his revenge plan, that sort of thing. And so the score would shift between the players making their case to the Hive, and flashing back to get what they need to make that case, all topped off with some tense negotiations.
I’d recommend against having them attacked by another faction, since that’s likely to turn the score into a standard street brawl, whereas a tense negotiation is kind of fun. But if the action stalls out, and the players don’t know what to do, and you don’t know what to do, then “Suddenly, these other guys attack” is probably a decent escape from that impasse.
That’s how I’d handle it, I think. Hopefully that helps. Also, it’s a neat idea I might have to steal in the future.
Sounds like some good ideas to me. Though my players are a bit allergic to flashbacks, so far (only two sessions into the game). They don’t like the idea of paying in stress for flashbacks for something they can do for free as prep in Free Play. I’ve tried to point out that it means the story moves along, and many of the flashbacks are free, but they aren’t won over yet.
Oh, more stuff got posted while I was writing. Cool.
As for them not wanting to use flashbacks, perhaps you’re charging too much? Not all flashbacks cost stress, especially when they’re easy to accomplish. I would argue, if most of the legwork for this score is going to be done with flashbacks (if you’re going with what I suggested) that most of them would be free. “I want to flash back to sneaking onto this barge, to confirm that they’re running drugs with it.” To which I would say “well, you knew about the barge, and had plenty of time to find it, so Zero Stress.”
Onto the main point:
So my first thought is “Wow, that could be a really short score.” What I’m seeing is the players say “We heard you have this barge,” and the Hive says “Yup,” and the players say “Well this guy that told us wants to sink it. So you should like us.” And then the Hive says “Okay,” and everybody wins. Haha, obviously that’s not really how it’d play out, but still.
In reality, I imagine the Hive would play dumb: they’d deny that there’s anything untoward about their operations, and certainly that there are drugs on that barge. And then they’d quietly track down that Merchant and have him killed, all without giving the PCs anything–the PCs are enemies, and enemies make for risky agents, especially when the Hive has their own mercenary crew on retainer.
So maybe the PCs have to demonstrate that they have evidence that the Merchant knows something about the Hive’s operations, and also that his information is correct. They could even threaten to work with the Merchant (or at the very least use the Merchant’s information against the Hive) if the Hive doesn’t make them a good offer.
I think having one person at the table who wants to work with the crew, and one who wants to murder them, isn’t going to come across very well: I recommend having the second-in-command try to work against the PCs during flashbacks, instead. But that’s just my guess.
Good food for thought. Thanks!
OK, here’s a different angle for consideration:
How about when the PCs get paid, Karth steps out of the shadows revealing it was all a trap and the PCs are helping the Hive now. But the Merchant, having survived long enough to make a name for himself, has his own loyal bodyguards disguised nearby, allowing him to escape.
Why have the Merchant escape? Because now the Hive can send the PCs against the Merchant in a series of loyalty scores (and maybe the PCs end up winning over Karth eventually).
That’s an interesting angle as well.
Social scores:
This is hard in a way because it overlaps with “Deception” so much, so I have limited the play reports to examples of negotiation, bargaining, or persuasion.
In the first score here, the Unrecommendables make contact with a rival crew who has a person of interest to the inspectors in their number.The plan was to warn them and possibly unite to baffle the inspectors. It didn’t work out too well, but there’s always revenge. Details: they knew the bartender, and one of their NPCs had a brother who was the problem.
fictivefantasies.wordpress.com – More Blades in the Dark
In this play report, skip to “Stealing the Bard” where they have to get an influential NPC (and his turf) away from the Red Sashes. (Of course, he had a price.) Detail: they knew the target’s personal doctor.
https://fictivefantasies.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/blades-in-the-dark-unrecommendables/
For the conclusion of the arc, the Unrecommendables open their new theater, and opening night has GOT to go well. We have the biggest flashback impact I’ve ever even heard of, as well as the death of Scurlock! For this one, they are actually the target of aggression.
https://fictivefantasies.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/blades-in-the-dark-unrecommendables-grand-opening/
I was a player in “Highway Diplomacy” where my character arranged to steal an incoming Iruvian diplomat’s personal stuff, then sell it back to him. The second part was social; negotations took place.
https://apokalypsisrpg.blogspot.ie/2017/07/highway-diplomacy.html
“A Night at the Theater” section is free-play, but that’s where the crew got rep and heat from revealing it was they who stole the Red Sash materials promised to a powerful third party, suggesting the third party should work with them instead.
https://fictivefantasies.wordpress.com/2017/07/22/blades-in-the-dark-audacity/
Those are my “social” heists in actual play. I hope something there is helpful.
Thinking in terms of clocks and obstacles might help. You say they’ll need to talk to Djera, the leader of the Hive, to do these negotiations but how easy is it for a group of scoundrels at negative 2 status to get a sit-down with the leader of the one of the most powerful criminal factions in the city? Not very easy, I would have thought.
If we look at the example in the rulebook…
“Complex enemy threats can be broken into several “layers,” each with its own progress clock. For example, the Lampblacks’ HQ might have a “Perimeter Security” clock, an “Interior Guards” clock, and a “Bazso’s Office Security” clock. The crew would have to make their way through all three layers to reach Bazso’s personal safe and the whiskey collection within.”
So for a tense social score involving the Hive, the engagement roll might be a meeting with your contact in the Hive, and then:
• Progress Clock: Convince your contact to take you to talk to Djera at Hive HQ. Might involve handing over weapons, putting a bag over your head, etc.
• Tug-of-War Clock: Sit-down with Djera and Karth. If it’s filled, Djera agrees to the plan. If it’s emptied, Karth’s hostility turns violent.
• Danger Clock: The merchant finds out they’re being double-crossed. This clock would run across the whole score, and fill up where appropriate. Maybe the merchant has their own spies and agents, or maybe their suspicion might be raised in other ways. It provides a ticking timebomb to add tension.
This gives you plenty of different clocks to fill with failed action rolls or partial successes, and don’t forget that harm isn’t just for physical violence; the PCs might get ‘intimidated’ or ‘charmed’ or whatever.
Excellent. Haven’t thought enough about clocks. 🙂
Our crew had a fake charity ball, a gentry housewives’ charitable social club started by a shill of our Slides and manipulated into raising funds for the Skovland refugees. We padded the take further running a poker game in the backroom for the bored husbands.
We also did a sting pretending to buy an antique being fenced by a rival, which we swapped with a fake crafted by our Leech.
We had another job where we placed an ally on the city council, with the crew scrambling to seduce, bribe, blackmail and threaten all the voting councillors to support our puppet, all the night before the vote, so they wouldn’t have a chance to find out from each other that the fix was in.
A later job, we canvassed the various warehouses on the Docks to vote in the local gang we’d seeded the work crews with to stack the table at the Dockers union hall, so most of the table was friendly when we staged a violent coup in the subsequent job, a purge of holdouts at the table and sympathizers in the neighborhood.
Sean Sullivan Cool, do let us know how you get on! I think a social score is an interesting challenge to pull off.
I would also look at page 167 of the rulebook, around NPC threat levels. Djera, the leader of a tier IV faction, is surely a master – and here’s what the rulebook has to say about that;
“If the NPC is a master, tell the players what the NPC has already done, then ask if they want to resist it. “She’s just way too fast for you to deal with. Before you realize what’s happening, the manacles are on your wrists. Yeah? Or do you want to resist that?””
What might that look like in a social score? I’m not sure, but I think it could give some clues as to how make this a challenging and tense score. Maybe as soon as she says hello, looks them in the eye and shakes their hand, they’re stunned and humbled by her piercing presence. “Yeah? Or do you want to resist that?”
You want to sway her? First you’ll have get past her “she doesn’t give a fuck about you” clock.
Etc.
Sean Sullivan Not only do I agree wholeheartedly with your players, but after 50 sessions without a single flashback for all the same reasons, our game hasn’t suffered one bit. I think if your free play phases don’t drag, it ain’t broke and doesn’t need fixing.