HEROIC FIGHTS (option)
This is an option to convey a more ‘heroic’ feel to fights in BiD.
As a caveat, I don’t think there is anything wrong with the mechanics as they are, and I realize that fights are deliberately punishing in BiD, since the point of the game is mostly about trying to avoid physical confrontation. What I’m exploring here is just an option that may suit some situations (e.g. a swashbuckling sequence) or possibly other more combat oriented settings.
Mechanics:
Handle characters’ attacks as usual, but on a 1-5 result, allow the option to take a Defense roll without using Stress. Let’s call this a ‘Soft Defense’ roll: on a 6 avoid all damage, on a 4-5 it decrease damage by one step, on a 1-3 don’t mitigate anything.
The normal Defense roll is still available, using Stress to completely negate damage, but it is either this or the Soft one that the player has to choose before attempting the roll.
This will make fights last a bit longer a be a bit more tactical, but it could be fine for a change of pace.
Feedback is welcome.
The only real problem i have with this is the “Roll 1-3: Nothing happens”. As far as i’m aware, one of the ideas behind Blades is that no roll leads nowhere. In your case you have a 50% of rolling ‘for nothing’
Yannick Massa True. But I’d say something does happen: you take full damage. If anything it is more the ‘6’ results that bothers me, but that’s the same as a normal Defense roll on a ‘6’, where it avoids all damage without incurring in any stress, so I guess that might be ok.
I don’t think you need special rules for this: I think that you can easily obtain swashbuckley feel in Blades if you use complications instead of harm as standard ripercussions during combat and use clocks to represent the flow of an important duel.
Also, if you don’t want to go that far, BitD is not so brutal if you let resistance negate all harm during combat.
I meant nothing in the sense that nothing is changing; you’re still taking full damage, which is what was gonna happen before you rolled
Yannick Massa, in Blades a roll changes something, it represents an action, an attempt at something. If the roll fails, the status quo doesn’t remain the same; because the character has done something, there needs to some kind of effect. If the status quo remains the same after the roll, then your roll did nothing.
Jesse Abelman yeah, that’s what I’m saying :p but in the Soft Defence roll detailed above a roll of 1-3 mitigates no damage on a damage mitigation roll. Situation before the roll I’d the same as the situation after the roll. Status quo is maintained
Yannick Massa, right, and what I’m saying is that’s not how rolls in Blades generally work. Any result on a roll should change the status quo. Your Soft Defense roll is kind of against the design philosophy of the game. Which doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use it if it works for you and your players.
Jesse Abelman Are you confusing Yannick Massa with Riccardo Lenzi here?
Omari Brooks I totally am! Sorry Yannick Massa, we are on the same page here.
Jesse Abelman hah thought so, no worries man! 😀
yes, you are guys 🙂 And that’s totally valid feedback. So it’s the 1-3 that seems to be the problem. Perhaps a ‘Soft Defense’ may just use 1 stress, so there is a change to the status quo, no matter what.
I think then you just run into the problem of paying a cost for potentially no effect (50% at that). I think MisterTia86 has it right, you could get epic out of BitD as is with creative consequences and judicious use of full mitigation, depending on the context of your narrative
Here is a fight example I posted a while back. I think it accomplishes what you seek without changing the rules at all
I was talking with some friends interested in trying Blades and this subject of initiative and combat game up. As part of the convo I ended up writing out a combat example of how the duel shown in the below video might play out. It more detailed than a typical Blades fight would be, but I think it gives you a good idea of how I would manage the back and forth between PC/NPC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV4MhSCK0_o
I don’t do the whole fight. I start around the time they start grappling and onto the finish.
Flint: You said we were back on even footing. Ok, I will use Finesse to engage with some classic cutlass techniques.
GM: Risky position, standard effect. You are both skilled and tough so I think you have no special advantage or disadvantage here.
Flint: Rolls 6. Sweet.
GM: Nice. So, remember that “Line, Tempo, Distance” clock?
Flint: Sure, I already have 4 ticks on it. You said that when it fills at 8 ticks it means I have gained the advantage in Line, Tempo and Distance and so can attempt a fight-ending attack.
GM: Right. And, don’t forget, if Singleton gets the clock to 0 ticks, he can do the same to you. So standard effect lets you put two more ticks on that clock. However, Singleton is a little slow recovering that last parry. Instead of improving your clock, you have an opportunity to close to a grapple. The close fight is dangerous, but it might let you end the fight quicker.
Flint: I like the sound of that. I think this is more Skirmish than Finesse. Flint is employing some down and dirty wrastlin’ here.
GM: Awesome. Still risky position, standard effect.
Flint: Rolls 2. Ugh.
GM: Sorry man. So, Singleton catches you as you come in, grapples with you, but he gains leverage and pushes you back and slams you into a wooden post, pinning you there. That’s level 1 harm for the slam and you are pinned against the post, unable to do much until you shift the power balance.
Flint: Can I resist any of that?
GM: You can resist either, both or none.
Flint: Hmmm. I like the idea of letting him think he has the advantage, and then turning the tables. So, let him pin me. But, I don’t want to be at reduced effect for the rest of this fight. Singleton is nowhere near defeat. I will resist the harm. I brace myself as he slams me and it doesn’t shake me much. Rolls 5. Not bad, only took 1 stress. So, we are blade-to-blade, right? Heck, I will just slide my strong onto his weak and bring my point to bear in his neck.
GM: Easier said than done. If you pull it off, that could land a serious, or even deadly blow. But, its gonna be a desperate position. One wrong move and you end up dead instead, or you two pull off an embarrassing double kill.
Flint: I don’t like the sound of that. Wait a minute, what about if I have his “measure” first? I want to get a sense of his stance and where he is applying pressure to the blade, so I know where and how I can work. I want to Study him.
GM: Cool. Standard effect, and if you succeed, it will improve your position to risky when you try to stab him. He is trying to get your measure too, and is not making an immediate attack, so your Study won’t be desperate, but it will be risky.
Flint: Fair enough. Rolls 4. Ooh. What happens?
GM: Ok, so you take just a bit too long and Singleton moves first. He pommel strikes you for level 1 harm and your effect is reduced. You lose the opportunity to bring the point to bear, but you can still attack in a less deadly way at that same risky position.
Flint: I will resist the harm. As he comes in for the pommel strike I will shift to block the attack. Rolls 4. Another 2 stress. Wow, I don’t want to resist the reduced effect. That puts me at 5 stress already. My stress is building up, and I might still need it before this fight is over. Besides, this gives me the perfect opportunity for a knee to the groin. I think that is also very brawling, so Skirmish it is. Rolls 6. Yes!
GM: Well done. You land a solid knee, knocking him back and ending the pin. I am starting a down’n’dirty clock for the up close fight. It has 6 segments. As long as the fight is at close quarters, you can finish Singleton when it is filled, and he can finish you when it is empty. It starts with 3 segments filled.
Flint: Ok, I will punch with my guard and try to follow immediately with a slash.
GM: Things are roughly even again, so risky, standard.
Flint: Cool. Even though this up close, I am employing very technical cutlass techniques here, so I think this is Finesse. Rolls 4.
GM: Your punch lands, but you are tired and put too much weight behind it. You lose what structure you had, and fly off balance. This will be reduced effect. Narratively this means you are too off balance to do the follow-up strike. We will only add 1 tick to the down’n’dirty clock. That leaves it at 4 unless you want to resist?
Flint: Naw. I can play from here.
GM: Ok. You are both off balance now. You spot Singleton gearing up for a wild swing. What do you do?
Flint: I want to pause for just a moment, let him think he has me, and then dodge away. I think that will be Finesse.
GM: I like it. This is going to be controlled. You aren’t really advancing your offense, just positioning yourself for an opening. Standard effect.
Flint: Rolls 5.
GM: You dodge his wild swing but end up on your back. His sword “thunks” into a cannon mount and sticks there. He struggles to free it. You aren’t in a position to immediately strike with your sword, but your feet are primed to strike.
Flint: Cool. I will kick his sword, trying to break it. Sounds like Wreck to me.
GM: Agreed. Risky, standard.
Flint: Rolls 6. Awww yeah.
GM: Sweet! The sword snaps, leaving it the size of a large knife. That is 2 more ticks, which fills down’n’dirty at 6 ticks. You have an opening for a killing blow. Singleton’s not beat up that much and has an edged weapon even if its broken, so the position is still risky. But, success here will end him. So, great effect.
Flint: I am going with a powerful overhand chop. This is more Skirmish than Finesse. Rolls 1. Ugh, you must be kidding me.
GM: Sorry man. He steps into your attack, catches your arm and then rockets a hard punch straight into your face. Suffer level 2 harm, concussion.
Flint: I need to resist that. Rolls 3. Shoot. That puts me at 8 stress. Oh well, still in the game.
GM: Ok, so that reduces to level 1 harm, bell rung. He has the initiative. At this point, you fall back and he jumps onto you, attacking you with his broken blade like a dagger. You catch his hand and the blade to stop a killing blow, but Singleton has you in a tough spot. Down’n’dirty drops back to 3 ticks. And, things are stuck in a stalemate here. You won’t be able to put ticks back on the clock until you shift the power balance somewhat.
Flint: I don’t like the sound of that, but I can’t risk resisting at this point. A bad roll and I might trauma out. This is a pirate ship, right? Must be something I can use to gain advantage. I want to do a quick Survey of the environment for something to use to my advantage.
GM: That’s gonna be risky. You have a good grip on his arm and blade, but dividing your attention here could be deadly. Also, reduced effect because of your bell rung harm. It is hard Survey with your head swimming.
Flint: Rolls 4.
GM: You spot a small cannon ball that would make for real nice bludgeon. It would definitely up your effect with any counter offensive. Trouble is, reduced effect means you can’t reach it from the current position.
Flint: Ok, I want to push one way, and when I feel him resist, suddenly release my own tension and trick him into overcompensating. If I pull it off, that should give me an opening to grab the cannon ball. Finesse should do the trick.
GM: Risky, but reduced effect again from your harm. Success means you get the cannon ball, but you will need to do another action to actually attack with it.
Flint: Rolls 6.
GM: Ok, so he falls for the bait. You push the blade over your shoulder and he falls atop it as it slams into the deck. You grab the cannon ball.
Flint: I smash him in the face with it.
GM: Risky, but great effect. This is a very gross motor action, so I think you aren’t penalized by your harm.
Flint: Skirmish then. Rolls 6. Yes!
GM: The cannon ball shatters his jaw and sends him reeling. That’s 3 ticks back on down’n’dirty, filling it. Singleton crawls away, badly hurt. You have another opportunity to end the fight.
Flint: I am going to Wreck this guy. Try to start a mutiny…you’re done buddy.
GM: Ok, but you are pretty beat up yourself. Throwing caution to the wind like that will put you in a desperate position. However, utterly destroying him will have the side effect of sending a message. It will knock back down your “Captain is weak” clock by 3 ticks.
Flint: Good. That clock got me in this mess to begin with. I’m going for it. Rolls double 6s. Ohhh. I let him have it. I smash his head in and don’t stop until it’s a pile of mush on the deck.
youtube.com – YouTube
This feels a little like one of the alternative Uncertain Resistance rules on page 231.
The difference is that on a 4/5 you have to pay stress to reduce the harm. (On a1-3 you don’t resist at all, so Riccardo Lenzi your “noting happens” result actually has some precedent.)
I think that rule is actually a little more balanced for what you’re going for, but you could always adapt it a bit, maybe reduce the stress cost by one or two.
I recommend against having two different resistance rolls in the game, because some players are going to want to sit down and figure out the optimal choice, which can slow down play a lot. Maybe you could declare when one rule is in effect (and the other is unavailable), but then you have to make more decisions about it, keep track of it, etc.
I think MisterTia86 has the best approach to the desire for a more heroic combat feel that deviates the least from the mechanics as written. You don’t have to change the way combat functions at all to change the general stakes and seriousness of complications/Harm.
Lots of good stuff here, thanks all. I agree MisterTia86 approach is good and perfectly viable, but sometimes I don’t feel like sidestepping the damage system, hence the option I’m suggesting here. Steven Dodds is right to note this is quite similar to Uncertain Resistances options, just a more forgiving (and a bit simpler). The reason why ‘no outcome’ on 1-3 doesn’t bother me is that in my mind a 1-5 attack roll just triggers a counter-attack from the opposition as a consequence, and the Resistance roll to that determines how the characters is able to cope with it; therefore, to me the situation has evolved even on a 1-3 Defense roll. This is just my point of view of course, to explain the way I’m looking at this.
Riccardo Lenzi So I think where we differ here is on this key point: ” in my mind a 1-5 attack roll just triggers a counter-attack from the opposition as a consequence.” If it’s just an automatic, mechanical trigger, then of course it isn’t going to feel epic.
1-5 doesn’t automatically trigger a counter attack from the opposition, it triggers a consequence from the GM, like any other action. A 1-5 on a roll to wreck a door doesn’t trigger a counter-attack from the door, it triggers a consequence from the GM. Combat isn’t different. One kind of consequence is harm from a counter attack, sure, but it can also be reduced effect, worse position, some other kind of fictional debility (pinned, disarmed, etc..).
This is, to an extent, what Richard McNutt suggests, but you can make it simpler, without the clocks (though I love the clocks) and still maintain an epic feel.
Part of my issue here is that I think your soft resistance roll doesn’t really contribute to making the fight more epic, it just makes it longer, and makes your characters take somewhat less harm. Think about 1-5 rolls as opportunities to introduce interesting complications into your PCs lives. They are the moments that let them show what powerful and daring scoundrels they are. If all that happens is they take harm, or are able to avoid it through a simple roll, what’s daring or powerful about that?
As an update, upon have tried this in actual play, it worked smoothly for my group. We didn’t find the combat scene dragging too long and the players liked having an alternative way to burning stress for mitigating damage, although a less reliable one. It introduces a tactical choice, but I don’t dislike that since resource management is an important part of Blades anyway. We are still keeping other methods that have been mentioned, like non-damage consequences and clocks, so this is something extra. It may not suit everyone’s game, but so far it seemed to work fine for us.