Quick question: is there a solid rule against a devil’s bargain with resistance rolls?
Quick question: is there a solid rule against a devil’s bargain with resistance rolls?
Quick question: is there a solid rule against a devil’s bargain with resistance rolls?
I was under the impression that the consequences of a Devil’s Bargain occur regardless of the outcome of the roll it is for. As such the consequences shouldn’t be ‘resistible”. Otherwise there would be nothing to prevent player’s from simply getting a bonus die on rolls then off setting it by jacking up their methods of resistance the outcomes of the bargains.
Or are you asking about using DB to add dice to a Resistance roll?
You could still take the hit from a devil’s bargain and resist, but my gut agrees with you. It could get wierd if the bargain was to take damage while boosting a roll to resist damage. It’s more a “Not living in a GM-vacuum” thing.
Under Rules Reference 1, Devil’s Bargain is explicitly listed under ‘Action Roll’ and NOT listed under ‘Resistance Roll’. I’m pretty sure the intent is that you cannot take Devil’s Bargains on resistance rolls. Also, John is correct in that the idea behind a Devil’s Bargain is “this bad thing happens no matter what, but you get a bonus die”, so you can’t resist the effects of them.
I’m not clear on which(if either of those) you were asking about, but that’s my 2 cents anyhow. 😛
I’ve given devil bargains on resistance rolls. There was a clock of ghosts about ready to erupt and kill a target the crew was trying to protect. So the leech ran forward with a vial of Leviathon blood and poured it on himself. He tried to use his body as a shield to make sure the ghosts couldn’t rip apart the target. I thought it was cool and offered him eletrical burns Level 1 harm to gain an extra dice on the resistance roll which would of kept the ghosts from going crazy.
Aaron Berger , those are the things I’m wondering about. That doesn’t seem to break the game.
I wouldn’t say it breaks the rules but its hard to convince someone of a devil’s bargain in those situations. Because they already are trying to resist a consequence and you have to offer another one. My table rules is that devil’s bargains can’t be resisted.
Definitely don’t allow Devil’s Bargains to be resisted. I could see letting someone to take a Devil’s Bargain to gain +1D on a resistance roll — I generally have DB’s affect the larger plot and create far-reaching consequences, rather than have them be consequences in the moment.
I like that, Adam. Impending doom stacking up can be very intense.
I think it should be fine to let players resist the consequences of a Devil’s Bargain, because it is mathematically similar to Pushing Yourself: both add +1d for some minor stress cost. I guess it can get abused if a PC has a really excellent resistance rating and is, on average, spending noticeably less than 2 stress to resist.
If you think about it, a DB can almost always be resisted, in a roundabout way. Say the DB is that Havler, the “sergeant” of your cohort of cutthroats, will become greedy and cause problems. When you deal with that, you might need to consider some resistance rolls, depending on how it plays out. That might be a shaky link, however it does bring your capacity to resist into the arena of the DB.
Personally, I think the DB works fine when adding to resistance rolls. Stress is at a premium, so every boost helps. Off the top of my head, a DB to boost a Prowess roll against a sword blow might be, “You completely resist the attack but your armor won’t get fixed for free. It’s going to require a downtime action”. Things like that.
To me, the DB…even a minor one…has teeth by its very existence. Assuming players are in the fictional space (which is all but required to even make the game work in the first place), even small complications add to the tone of desperation, complications and potential problems. I like this.
While its certainly ok for a GM to allow resistance rolls for DBs consequences I can’t help to feel that if doing so just results in more stress taken by the player, why not just say you can ‘pay’ for more than one bonus die with some level of progressive stress or linear stress scale and do away with DBs all together as a mechanic because this is the real end result.
I will say I prefer the ‘must accept’ side effect for a bonus die mechanic because a player willingly accepts it, it always adds something to the narrative and its an additional way for other player’s to introduce complications to the narrative without having their character act against the other player’s of the crew.
You shouldn’t, in my opinion, resist a DB directly. My above post was how it can happen indirectly.
If you say “yes” to a Devil’s Bargain (and keep in mind players should always know what the DB is before they say yes) it happens. Period.
Devil’s Bargains should be an opportunity for the GM to come up with their most wide-reaching and creative consequences. The kinds of things that make their players go, “oh no” but while grinning. If you turn them into a math problem of “do I think I can roll a 5 or 6 to make this better than pushing myself?” you’ll be doing yourself and your players a disservice.
I don’t think there’s an argument as to if the DB happens. That’s 100% clear. It’s if you can take a DB to add to a resistance roll. I do, however, feel that a DB penalty doesn’t have to absolute. Say you’re Surveying a score’s location and take the DB “A Bluecoat patrol will be scouring the area at the curfew bell”, it WILL happen. How it will come to affect the character remains to be seen, possibly manifesting as a problem on a consequence of “Taking extra time” or adding Heat or actually catching the character as they finish regardless of the outcome. I personally wouldn’t do the last as the
DB wasn’t “You will get caught”.
It all goes back to the fluidity of the game and how versatile it is. What works for one group might not work for another. I love that’s it’s not a tightly wound spring that’ll frag the table’s fun if you fiddle with it.