So there is this issue that has come up in our group that I have not been able to answer in a good way. The advancement of your gang / crew happens through the crew advancement track and you “pay” for your upgrades (or cohorts / permanent assets) with your crew xp. But what about long term projects? My players have been trying to acquire permanent assets, item upgrades and so on by starting a long term project and filling out the clock. So far I have shut that down, since I am unsure if that is the intended game mechanic here and pushed them towards projects that have different goals and rewards. Is there an official answer to that problem? I am a bit scared that allowing long term projects to acquire crew upgrades might screw up the normal progression system.
So there is this issue that has come up in our group that I have not been able to answer in a good way.
So there is this issue that has come up in our group that I have not been able to answer in a good way.
Long term projects are meant to be game mechanic breaking. That said, I’d allow long term projects to get semi-permanent assets with long term projects. Crew upgrades are meant to represent a whole logistical upgrade so that the assets can be fixed or replenished with a minimum of fuss. I’d say the same assets acquired as a long-term project wouldn’t have the same longevity and thus could be taken away completely through theft or damage.
There are systems in place to both acquire an asset and upgrade the crew. There is nothing wrong imo with explaining to would be loophole seekers that long term projects are a different beast altogether. It seems the long term project better covers those areas not explicitly handled by the other two. If their intention would better fit one of these other systems, that is what the player should use.
That said official clarification on the overlap of these systems would be appreciated.
Generally I have let LTPs aquire assets that can be used one time and then reaquired easily for the cost of a down time action. Those assets can then be made permanent when the crew spends an upgrade after leveling. That covers aquisition of crew and cohorts, but I’d do something similar if they wanted to do something like trap their lair, those traps would work once and require upkeep afterwards.
In my group I have allowed LTPs for certain upgrades, such as Living Quarters and a Workshop (which they’ve both recently completed). As far as Cohorts, there are a few NPC thugs they’ve peeled off from other gangs, but so far they’ve been in the background and have had no mechanical benefit. Once they spend an upgrade on them, they will be a really real Cohort.
This will be covered in the book. But, yes, you can get stuff on the crew sheet without xp — usually via a long term project (or 2 or 3) then a score.
It’s mechanically similar to getting a claim that’s not on your regular claims roadmap.
Getting stuff via xp represents lots of little background stuff coming to fruition. If you do stuff on-screen to get upgrades, though, you can also earn them that way.
Just to throw in my two cents, if you don’t think a given upgrade should be a single clock, even with 8 segments, split the upgrade into several smaller clocks representing the different parts of acquiring it.
A workshop, say, needs a secure premises, tools and supplies, and labour. That’s easily three clocks of six or even eight parts each depending on your situation and resources. Should keep your players busy.
I also feel like the “Be a fan of the PCs” GM principle comes into play here – if it seems like a cool thing for the group to have and they’ve done something towards it, why not let them have it? You have plenty of other tools to make life hard for them.
The Dolls’ plan to gentrify The Drop in order to get a better class of burglary targets was a multi-stage LTP. First they had to line up potential investors. Then they had to lean on the current owners to get them to agree to sell.
Thanks to everyone for your interesting input.
John Harper I am glad this will be resolved in the final version of Blades in the Dark. I do not know if you remember, but we had a small conversation in the /r/rpg thread, in which BitD was crowned indie-rpg of the month. At the time I really disliked how BitD does Harm, Stress and Resistance. Since you (or someone from your design crew) took so much effort in clearing up some questions about the system and showed quite a bit of interest in the commenters opinion, we decided to give BitD another shot. While I still dislike the (in comparison to everything else) complex nature of the “bad things happen”- Resist / Suffer the Consequences / Harm / Flashback – decision making, especially if you play with new players, this has been much less of a problem with a bit of practice. Embracing the “fiction first” premise of your system has helped a lot here. We have very much fallen in love with the system since then. The freedom you give to players is great and it feels like the shadowrun game we always wanted to play. Less clunky and focused on suspense and tension. (Now we only need a cyberpunk hack 😉 )
There is one extra thing that you might be able to clear up for us. “Scores” are a pretty obvious way to make coin for some of the crews. Thieves can pull off a heist, breakers might kidnap someone and so on. But what about the more.. everyday business focused gangs, like hawkers and smugglers? While we are still doing this through scores at the moment ( smuggling runs, large drug trades and so on), I am curious if I might have missed some other mechanic here that represents the ongoing gang economy?
Ben Morgan Yes, those are exactly the long term goals I have been pushing my players to as well. Improving their hunting grounds / smuggling routes ect. as well as personal goals, instead of crew advancements.
Mark Griffin I have considered such a version as well, but this feels like you are kinda turning the goal oriented mechanic of acquiring an asset into a chore, doesn`t it? Because in this version, what should be a “one-time-use asset” is turning into a much larger timesink upfront while still retaining the long-term cost of having to refresh it with downtime actions.
Tim Denee Yes, you are absolutely right about that. Still, cheating the “natural” progression of the game can create some unexpected problems later on. Which is why I wanted to make absolutely sure that it is at least a somewhat intended mechanic before allowing it.
One general comment about engaging the mechanics in Blades:
You follow the interests of the game group. If your group finds a method tedious or over-involved, then gloss over it with one of the simpler systems. If your group wants to dive in to something and make it the focus of several LTPs and Scores, then you should do that.
Various Blades game groups don’t all have to agree on “one true way” to engage a mechanic in a given fictional situation. Everyone can use the toolbox as they please.
Oliver Smock I’m glad you’re enjoying the game! Regarding the ongoing gang economy for Hawkers, etc. that’s where Claims come in. Snag some of the income-focused Claims that generate coin during downtime. Those represent background action that generates coin off-screen, without a PC-driven score.
Also, in V7 of the PDF (coming this weekend hopefully!) I go into more detail about using Hunting Grounds and Product quality ratings to generate opportunities and coin.
Oliver Smock It may seem like a chore in theory, but in practice (at least in my games) it hasn’t been. Basically my crew has gotten the asset, used it once and then either upgraded it shortly after or never used it again. They consider it more of a “try it before you buy it” sort of thing.