So I have one group playing my Shadowrun hack that has lasted 15 sessions. We have a finale this Sunday, so over the past few months I’ve been seeking new players for the next group, and want to try something a little different. Five different new groups have all failed in less than a session.
I often begin with describing the basic premise, the role of players, then my role, and move on to a brief on the core mechanic. This includes a transition into Stress and its uses/recovery. I also cover Resistance and it’s versatility. Then I return to the fiction, presenting the starting situation and likely directions for play. We talk about the characters and then—-
brick wall.
They suddenly don’t know what to do. They are suddenly afraid to act. They start asking about which equipment they have. They all seem to have not been listening at all! Like, one person will do something, and as soon as there is a consequence, they stop acting. They don’t ask to resist (they take the beating, and get upset), and others don’t spend their stress (until the end of the session), and still others fail to engage the fiction at all (they just call out an Action name and throw down their dice, then later complain they weren’t engaged). Worst case (and this happened!) a player waited in an imaginary line permanently, never taking meaningful action, thinking I must address them before they could act.
Do I take extra time to cover the concept (like read them the headings from Players Best Practices and briefly explain their meaning ahead of time) or chock it up to bad players. Maybe a list of required reading will alleviate some of this. Little help?
Game mechanics are almost always an eye closer.. make a few cheat sheets and get going. Explain choices a few times during things but keep stuff moving.
Sounds like newer players.. start them off in the middle of something.. “you broke in and you know there are only a few doors and traps between you and the target..”.. Call on people when there is a long pause. Ask leading questions “His fists are hurting you.. are you going to just take it or defend yourself or what?” drag in others “you see John getting beat down.. what are you doing?”
I agree about the eye closer. Trying to avoid that.
re: “new” sort of, yes. Some were brand new additions to the craft, others were D&D or Shadowrun veterans. Last night’s game, which I refer to in the quotes of my OP was almost all D&D/PF vets
Funny: I said some of those things almost verbatim! which is also right around the time they took action -_- to leave the scene entirely. I think the two players that left were probably just the least interested though..
It might be a good idea to remind people of those rules when they come up. Like, if there’s a situation where it would make sense for a player to make a resistance roll, remind them that it’s an option they’ve got.
I agree with Thomas. I have found that I have to do that in my Blades campaign. Also I was thinking just the other day that Blades in the Dark could make a better Shadowrun game than Shadowrun is. So its cool to see someone else thought it would make a good hack. 🙂
Thomas Berton yes I did that multiple times. didnt help though: this is the same player who said he disliked the consequences from failing a couple times in his high-rated social actions, but he resisted plenty else in the game too, so I don’t even know
Maybe I’m misjudging the situation, but if your group hasn’t played a lot of AW or other games, they may not be adjusted to the concept of character harm as not always avoidable. There are no delicate snowflakes in the dark.
I think you’re on the right track about going over the transactional/conversational style of game Blades kind of demands you have.
Michael Yater I’ve been sure of it for some time now 🙂 it does make a better SR than SR does if you and players primarily enjoyed the fiction of the setting, and not the mountain of dice that so many SR5e players claim to enjoy
A newer version of the hack I made has been up for about six months. I updated it last about a week ago, but the last time I posted about it was last month: since that game ends ends Sunday, I will soon have 4 parting feedbacks which should be very revealing. I need more feedbacks as I return to editing it though; so feel free to check it out and let me know if you run a game of it (will link if so)
Might I say this is the very reason I’m writing Player Mantras and Player Tools on all of my character sheets?
It’s SUPER tough sometimes
Eric Levanduski yea you got it right. but isnt harm avoidable in all those games?
anyway I hope so [that I am on the right track]. The last game was very non-conversational when it came to the action. A whole lot of “What do you do?” followed by long silences, which I never saw before in 20 years of running games, AW or not.
I am bothered, but :shrug: hey maybe I just need to put together a little player’s guide vid if this happens to others (so far I am not gathering that it does though)
Adam Sexton I like that! putting it right on the character sheet is a better idea than I had (talk their ears off)
Mark Cleveland Massengale Thanks! I just did that because I need something to tell me what to do or else I go brain-blind and just scramble confusedly.
(Edit: IT DIDN’T SAVE. SHIT. That’s fine I can fix it. Make it better )
Mark Cleveland Massengale I’d love to check out the hack if you have it. Might be able to run a game sometime after my Blades campaign.
yea, Adam Sexton I am gonna take a crack at it too. Should be good guidance for Runners as well
Michael Yater https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yRiTGKhwM4EnHP1aCWq-0uFQmbtHOrNt-FBll90hTDU
D&D and PF teach GM and rules absoluteness. When the GM says, and you’re stabbed in the eye, you are stabbed in the eye. In Blades you say ‘mmm no, I don’t think so, I’m stabbed, but I manage to turn and make it a glancing blow’ and that is a skill that takes time.
You have to remind people.
Even with pro players that are good with rules you have to be like: Also remember you have armor.
Or: Hey did you do something to prepare for this? Flashback!
It takes some hand-holding. Telling people rules? Not helpful. Showing them, or having a ringer makes all the difference.
Stras Acimovic thought: I murder someone in the first scene (after a couple telegraphs, or similar badness), and “advise” resisting so they really get it 🙂
 might take some luring to actually justify murdering in the fiction, but taking something in their inventory away could also work for the less brainwashed players..
The very first PC action in the first session of v0.01 of Blades was:
“I try to get in close and shank him.” (rolls, fails)
“He turns the tables, twisting your knife back and stabbing you in the heart. You drop to the floor, your lifeblood pumping away. Do you die? You probably die, huh?”
hahaha. that got them going. 🙂
Ive been nodding for a few minutes thinking about the 1-3 result in cyberpunk equivalent. Just going to update my The Shadowrun section now 😀 (aka The Situation bit you do in Blades) adding suggestions for how things should snowball after every roll. Shadowrun 5e players brains will probably melt since it comes so early in the text muwahaha
but they need it. theyve been trapped far too long
I use a two pronged approach now when I am using the game with new people. First I offer them many options. You could do this, or this could happen, or you could flash back to this, or you could use a gang.
I also throw lot of advantages at them so they can pick the ones they want to use. They ask questions and find out there’s a secret back door and a disgruntled lover. Your friend knows the lover, and the secret back door is in an abandoned blacksmith shop.
Like with tests, it’s easier to choose from options rather than fill in the blanks. As the game goes on they can be trained to think in abundance and choose, but sometimes it helps to pick options.
It’s not particularly brutal or gritty, but I’m trying to turn new players on and get them engaged. Sudden ignominious disaster only appeals to a subset of players. Since I mainly play the game for one-shots or online with people I don’t know well, I prioritize them walking out with great stories and a desire to play again over making sure I worked them hard enough.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
I resolved to try again to speak with the other players from this session (the one that spawned this post), and get some specific feedback. Paid off: they were more open about it a few days later. Their opinions of the game varied, but the overall consensus is that my troubles were more of a table-specific issue, perhaps even personality conflict. Also, of tradgaming dogma creeping in (which, I could have done more to prevent).
I put a section with brief versions of the Best Practices directly on the playbooks, and coming from a similar tradgaming background, I resolved to ask more about people’s past gaming experience so I know better which points from that section deserve extra attention