I have a few questions regarding the new Assist Action.
Does “ask the GM what you can do to help. If you accomplish it…” mean that the character might have to make another roll to accomplish an action before they can assist?
Because if so, isn’t that just “Set-Up” but with an increase in position instead of effect? Speaking of which…
If you then “improve their position by one step” must your assistance, in the fiction, improve their position?
Because I often find that improving your position is hard, at least the way I run things. You’ve charged headfirst into the central compound of the Lampblacks in an attempt to rescue a captured teammate; everything you do is Desperate. If a player asked me, “what can I do to improve this position?” rather than “what can I do to help?” I would say “do you have a magic wand to hand?”
Essentially, so far, I’ve been taking Position to be at least a little literal. When you’re trying to Prowl through the streets of Whitecrown, you’re Daring, there’s very little things I can think of that would make you Dominant. Maybe if you managed to make the vast majority of the Bluecoats patrolling the District to disappear. But that’s a Mission, not an Action.
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So there is a lot of conversation about how the fiction comes first, followed by the system. (There is an essay to that effect in the most recent quickstart.) That applies here.
If a character comes up with an action that could potentially increase the position, then there’s a mechanic for how that works in the game. The player cannot look at the mechanic and use that without having some change in the story in mind.
Players are not entitled to full access to all the mechanical options all the time. The mechanics are there to provide some system for how to resolve efforts that make fictional sense.
So, as I take a look at your examples, I have thoughts. If a character leads a charge into a Lampblack compound, for example, how could a teammate improve the position?
Maybe flash back to the Lurk creeping over the wall and soaking some barrels in oil, then lighting them as they burst in. The guards’ attention is split, providing an edge. Maybe the Slide flashes back to bribing the day’s password out of a sozzled guard, and dressing everyone in Lampblack outfits.
If a player says, “Dude, I just want to make this easier” then it’s totally fine to say “How do you want to do that?” and only allow rolling dice if the answer makes some sense.
In Whitecrown, you could improve your position by dressing like nobles with guards. You could improve your position by bringing in a noble friend and traveling under her protection in her entourage. You could improve your position by riding in a stolen closed carriage with an impressive coat of arms. None of that involves reducing the guards; instead, the focus is on avoiding their attention.
One reason I really like this game is because its focus is squarely on bolstering player and GM creativity. You are encouraged to think outside the box and come up with unexpected ways to engage the story, because there are ways to apply system once you decide to do something.
If you look back a few days, you’ll see I asked a very similar question. I agree that the divide between setup and assist is fairly arbitrary and I think it’s okay to say either of those actions could increase position or effect based in the fiction. I think that assist should require a roll most of the time, because the backup player is likely performing an action against obstacles.
I agree with Andrew also that there are plenty of ways to increase position if you’re creative enough. The default assumption of the game seems to be that most things are difficult. If you find yourself often imposing all desperate rolls with no chance of improving the odds, you’re just running a much deadlier, grittier game. If that works for you, that’s great.
Thank you for the responses.
Andrew Shields I should have clarified that what I described was literally the straight-up situation. The players are roaring noisily into battle, weapons raised, in the Lampblack situation; not only that, but they did not even have this plan until an hour earlier and most of that hour was spent travelling to the Lampblack’s compound. Flashbacks were completely impossible. They did actually set fire to another building in the compound before they made their charge on the central factory, but I decided that basically meant that they thinned the numbers in the central area enough that their attacking force of eight gang members wouldn’t be completely and utterly slaughtered straight away; but the situation was still desperate.
Mark Griffin You’re right, for the most part I do play on Daring/Difficult but it’s when the Tier 0 gang of 10 members tries to assault the then Tier 3 gang’s compound of hundreds of armed and dangerous thugs that I decide that Desperate is the correct roll. I take 1-3 on Desperate very seriously so I rarely actually ask for a Desperate roll. It’s only when the players do things like the aforementioned farce that they come out.
Unrelated: they ended up being the luckiest bunch of lunatics in Duskwall, killing Baszo Baz, rescuing their friend, escaping with their lives, only 2 gaining Trauma and one Blade was completely unscratched. They just did not roll 1-3 in over half a dozen Desperate rolls.
If I was a player in that situation, I might still try to squeak in a flashback of quickly contacting an ally, so I could roll Command to see if some of my allies could be be recruited for support in the nature of distractions or leading a pack of thugs in a diversion.
Dylan Durrant That certainly sounds like a desperate situation, but clever use of abilities could allow for difficult rolls even when the odds are stacked against the PCs. The characters are capable and daring scoundrels, and part of the fun of the game is thinking of interesting ways to gain an advantage in dangerous situations. Of course another fun part of the game is to not act in your best interest and try to beat the odds by taking desperate actions. I try to let the players decide which kind of fun they want to have.
Andrew and Mark have the goods, and sometimes its partly a conversation between all the players (including the GM) to creatively come up with a way of improving position (if its wanted).
Flashbacks don’t have to be a ‘set’ time in the past. Maybe its a few minutes before off screen, where the Whisper begs for divine aid from their Leviathan patron, or years previous when the lurk reminiscences prowling about the neighbourhood as a young scoundrel and remembers some structural anomaly that provides some support to the current event.
I think the point is not HOW to make an improved position possible (through flashback / roll / creative storytelling), but more importantly WHY the milieu is embellished – on the spot – by doing so. There is this wonderful surge of creative clamouring over the top of each other as the players excitedly embellish the situation and setting by qualitative use of the ‘Yes, and’ or ‘Yes, but’ narrative tools.
You will be left with copious hooks left dangling, so write them down – these become your re-incorporation tools later in the campaign.
Good answers!
I’m working on a small update to the QS which will have the tweaked teamwork mechanics. Trying to get that done today.
Also, Dylan Durrant if a player asks you what they can do to assist and the answer is “I don’t see any way you could improve their position here,” then that’s your answer. Totally fine.
As others said in the thread, the players might have some ideas about it, so do make it a conversation. But the GM makes the final call since the integrity of the fiction is their job.
John Harper Thanks for the response! I definitely agree. In any case, that particular instance actually involved a player complaining toward the end of the plan, when they were actually out of immediate danger, that I was asking them to roll Daring instead of Desperate because they wanted the xp!
Mind if I ask while I’ve got your ear: in that particular instance, what happened was that they rolled Gang Trouble on their Entanglements and so far, in Downtime, I’ve been inclined toward playing the whole thing out. As part of that, it ended up with one of the players being kidnapped by the Lampblacks due to a 1-3 on a Desperate roll. The remaining players then came up with a plan to rescue them, and I elected to make this into a Score, mechanically-speaking, due to the gravity of it. Would you say all of that was reasonably within the rules?
Yep. Definitely within the rules. Expand or contract the action as you and the group like, following the interest of the group.