XP related question,..
The last time I GM’ed we did the downtime stuff after the game and in the end the players addressed that they feel that the XP system is very open for rather easy exploitation. That they do know groups who would dive into it, not by malicious intend but more so as an understand of the system.
Two approaches were mentioned:
Escalating to desperate rolls and keep re-rolling those up to four (or more) times on low results. The situation would get worse yet in the end there would be just one stress-effect roll.
The second approach would be to check the bladebooks options which grant XP and basically repeat the easiest one until one has enough ticks. Like the ‘disguise yourself’ condition on the Slide bladebook or even start summoning ghosts for the XP of it as a whisperer. The players may even find a fitting narrative.
As I listened to that Q&A recently I noticed that one answer provided was basically ‘be mature about it’ (if I got it right), though I wonder why the option is there in the first place.
It could be like Dungeon World where you can check your conditions only once. Yet obviously it isn’t.
As for escalating desperate rolls, I believe it’s been clarified somewhere that each manifested danger on a roll applies before re-rolling, so you’d have to resist, take stress, or conditions each time you roll poorly.
As for summoning ghosts: those things are scary, and it costs stress to summon them, so your whisper may not stay in the business too long at that rate.
I realize these responses answers little details more than your underlying question. I think in part players are supposed to ‘break’ the xp system, because, hopefully, by doing so they make some great stories and interesting, conflicted characters. (While that’s the idea, I have wondered if some playbook advance triggers might do this better than others)
In regards of summoning ghosts, it doesn’t necessarily cost stress as far as I see it plus there are other option like the encounter something occult.
While the Slide condition of disguising oneself and passing as another person seems rather XP-friendly.
I don’t really see the benefit of the story or the characters by basically doing the same thing over and over again. From what I got it feels like an open invite to grind as in a (cliche) JRPG.
Playbook balance is almost some item for another post ^^
It does confuse me a bit that the hound can almost only advance if acting against the victory conditions of the crewbook (amassing corpses which won’t do anything good but possibly raise heat) or in conflict with other characters who got opposing XP gain conditions,..
As a player I see the criteria for playbook advances stated on the respective playbooks a bit as MHR Milestones or TSoY Keys. So I try to “hit the trigger” for an XP as often as possible during play.
That means, playing a Slide I’d try to solve problems or at least help and support problem solving by impersonating different people. That seems the intention of this trigger. So I cannot see anything wrong in hitting the trigger as often as possible.
The same is true for other playbooks’ triggers for playbook advancements.
Those advancement criteria do inform certain “advantageous” actions the character is supposed to do quite frequently. This is not a bad thing at all (see MHR or TSoY). Although it might lead to very fast accumulating advancement ticks. But considering that gaining higher competency in Actions is limited by raising the caps on Action ticks in the Crew’s playbook those advancement ticks will probably only lead to more special abilities and Effect ticks.
I do wonder, actually, how fast the individual character’s competency is intended to rise. How many Action or Effect ticks, how many special abilities should a character accumulate over – say – about 10 scores he performs with his crew?
The expected pace is a good question Frank Falkenberg. I’m sure each group will pace things differently.
In my game, a session covers about 2 scores and players and crew got about halfway to 2/3rds toward a single playbook advance and a single action increase in a session. By that math, players would gain 2-3 action ticks and playbook advances over 10 scores, or 5-7 over 20 scores.
I am glad that crew advances split among upgrades, effect ratings, and special abilities, so ‘running out’ will take a while. Similarly, I appreciate that players’ effect ticks are now one option for playbook advances along with a new ability or two new items from another playbook.
I do somewhat doubt that its intended for a playbook to level once or twice after just one session or one score.
Its as well by far easier and of less risk to impersonate people for the Slide as to kill people for the Hound or dabble into the occult for the Whisperer. In this regards it seems a bit unbalanced to have one character buzz the XP button more often and with fewer risk.
I don’t think the hound has to kill anyone, they simply have to “hunt or Ambush a challenging target”, Attacking doesn’t have to be with intent to kill, I’d consider the murder skill perfectly acceptable for an attempt to shot out a kneecap from a distance and hunting doesn’t mean you don’t have anyone backing you up. Establishing dominance is basically anything that cows the opposition. The Whisper might have some trouble during some runs but others they’ll get more than anyone.
I’d also say that those actions only earn advance points if they are part of the score or involve some risk. A slide can’t just gain the trust of the barmaid down at the tavern, mark a point for gaining her trust, then sleep with her sister to gain a point for betraying it. Nor can he just show up to the hideout dressed as someone else as a joke and get credit for that. It has to be something that advances the team goals or at least has an element of danger to it in my mind.
Might be that I am confusing the Hound with the cutter.
One has to kill, one has to destroy stuff (got my PDF at home). ^^;
That condition isn’t set in the description, which was part of what got the discussion rolling.
Regarding the impersonating actions of a Slide I mentioned above, I did say that ALL those actions are to further the crew’s problem solving for the score.
But it is easy to describe a teamwork Assist as impersonating someone else. – So, check!
And it is easy to take point and Set-up another PC by impersonating someone else while manipulating some NPC. – So, check!
etc.
It is really easy for a Slide character to do any kind of Action under a new, different disguise. And ALL Actions are to further the score. And most of them do actually require a roll, cause Stress or at least have some measure of risk involved.
I do not consider this an “exploit”. I consider this playing according to what a Slide is actually supposed to do. The triggers on the playbook do support this kind of play.
It qualifies as an exploit if playing as one is supposed to play does grant one player a way faster progression then another player, as well as if the character development progressions raises faster then it is supposed to.
Its not as much exploiting in regards of the narrative (which can be easily achieved as well) but rather some mechanics behind the game that appear to react in a manner that suggest an exploitation (brokenness?).
Additional to the challenge that this behavior of the game might get “gamed” at less in regards of story and more in regards of the benefit. As Günther Lietz mentioned (iirc).
I would still say that one disguise counts once no matter how many people you fool with it, and impersonating is a specific person so that would also count. In mid caper it isn’t really practical to be doing a costume change constantly so the slide would have to get creative to earn those points, and creativity should be rewarded.
It is significantly easier for the Slide as for other bladebooks.
I do as well don’t see it as much as creativity but more as gaming the game. Like even a dozen costume changes can probably achieve convincingly if the Slide takes a note from “The Americans” (Current TV Series about Russian KGB agents in America of the 80ties who, among being awesome spies, are as well astonishingly awesome at disguising themself)