So, Wizards in a Tower (suggested by Michael Atlin ) is a thing that is happening now, and while trying to determine a modified skill loadout for wizard characters, I came across an interesting question that has relevance to the main game.
Specifically, to what extent do Effects flavour outcomes? Is non-lethal sparring just Murder/Finesse or Murder/Maneuver, whereas killing in a straight-up fight would be Murder/Force? I get that you can potentially kill someone in a fight with any Effect, so long as it is appropriate to what you described, but surely you cannot restrain yourself from killing with Force, even though you can with Finesse?
What outcome do you want? (as author). Its more describe the narrative ‘want’ (and thus establish effect) and then roll to see just how much of that takes place with the effect roll.
I think the interpretation of effects is very important to the tone / flavour of the game. The quickstart guide says that the whole table should be responsible for interpreting the scope of effects.
You don’t need to kill with Force. You could knock your foe over, smash his weapon, overcome him with a rain of blows so that he yields, or any other forceful way of overcoming him. “Murder” strikes me as the questionable element. If you’re not trying to inflict grievous injury I think Mayhem might be more appropriate, but if your group decides Murder covers fighting then I guess I can see it.
In fact, a danger when trying not to kill someone might be accidental infliction of death!
mmhm, I was under the impression that murder always killed people, (if successful) while if you want to fight without lethal force you should be rolling mayhem.
The text also indicates that there is lots of crossover with the actions, so I wouldn’t get too caught up on it. I think it would be largely up to the table and the fiction at hand to determine what is useful in a given situation.
Does skill in Murder mean you’re a trained assassin? Does that mean you can make some fighty-type maneuvers rather than just stab things to death? To answer that you make your fictional case to the table for how you will use that Action (you tell a small part of your character’s story). If the table says “cool”, then go.
I like this: “In fact, a danger when trying not to kill someone might be accidental infliction of death!”
I guess I am still trying to wrap my head around why a player, making a system-level choice, would choose an effect other than one of their best. If the Effect merely flavours the action, and does not constrain it, it seems that the player is always incentivized to have the character operate in their most impressive idiom, as there is no substantive difference in Effect. I find it telling that the replies here see a clear differentiation in intent between Murder and Mayhem, but none between the different Effect choices. If that is the case, why have different Effect levels at all? Why not just have generic Effect level and a descriptor for style (‘Forceful’)?
If you use the action Murder, you go for the kill, otherwise it’s Mayhem, you can’t say “I murder him, but I don’t want him dead”.
For Effect if you use Force, it will be bloody and messy (the work of a warrior). If you use Finesse, it’s gonna be quick and surgical (the work of an assassin).
Remember, you have to have the fiction behind it. You probably can’t Murder someone with Finesse when swinging a club. You can’t use Force to knife someone as you walk by. You can’t use Will with a weapon at all, really.
Want to make someone do your dirty work? If you argue well and convince him to do it, it’s probably Sway and Force (of personality); it’s definitely Force if you just browbeat the guy, and it could be Will if you just argue so long that he does it so you’ll shut up. It could be Sway and Insight if you do it by tying together what he wants with what you need done so it seems like it’s in his best interests. If you want someone to do it while thinking it was his idea all along it might still be Sway, but now Force isn’t going to cut it. You need the subtlety of Finesse or, again, Insight into the right levers to pull.
Daniel Helman this post was before Effects were collapsed into four clearer categories and no longer applies as much.