My lingering question when considering ‘s underwater temple scenario (in this thread: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+DuamnFigueroa/posts/9NSHAivGdH1) is that all the effort of a multi-score endeavor doesn’t specifically move you toward raising your tier, though it does give plenty of coin and xp. That makes me wonder, though, if it is actually too easy to “raise your tier by doing a job for a higher tier faction with whom you have +3 relationship”?
I’ve not run the game, but on my first read-through I must have glossed over that option and therefore got the impression that the faction tiers are zero-sum slots that you can only get into if you knock someone out first. I can see how a 0-sum game on each tier could be problematic due to factions bouncing up and down all the time and leaving vaguaries for what happened to their ‘slot’.
Nevertheless, I found some appeal in the tone of making and then competing to fill power vacuums. I suppose still mostly works with the option or raising tier by exploiting a higher vulnerable faction. That clause still makes it valuable to help Faction A whittle down Faction B until you can swoop in and make the best of B’s weakness (while probably burning some bridges with A)
I would think the clear downside is that you are 1. now beholden to the higher-tier faction, who are your effective sponsors and 2. going to run up against their enemies.
Keep in mind that you need 3 Hold to increase your Tier, and it resets down to 1 every time you go up.
If you’re lucky on your development and entanglement rolls, you can go up pretty quickly (every other score) but you’ll be in a precarious position. If that’s too quick, the easy fix would be to raise the minimum Hold to be able to advance.
Alternately: maybe your Allies don’t always have a mission for you to do. Maybe you need to get a 6 on the Entanglement roll for that opportunity to come up, and if it doesn’t, you need to fight your way to the top the hard way…
Ah, forgot about the 3 Hold minimum, and that the crew can’t feel entitled to your big buddy having jobs for you to do for them.
Not to mention, your big buddy might not want the same things you do. While they wouldn’t out and out betray you, there may still be valid reasons you might want to turn down that job, even if it’ll bump you up a tier. Like:
* you’ve got an enemy threatening your Hold and it’s too risky to reset down to 1
* the target is one of your other allies (who do you step on on the way to the top?)
* the target is someone you don’t want to upset (“do we really want a negative rep with Lord Scurlock the immortal vampire?”)
* the job is too risky
* the job involves crossing one of the few moral lines you have left
* etc
Excellent considerations to mire up the decisions. I knew I was missing something(s).
In addition, groups moving up fast are going to run into same-tier opposition. You know how the Lampblacks and Red Sashes are at war, and it’s not going to end well for one of them?
When you hit Tier I, you may be thinking of how awesome it’s going to be when you hit Tier II, and thinking of how to arrange 3 hold, and a +3 faction, but actually, there’s probably a Tier I group that is going to want their turf back, and you ain’t moving up at all until you put that to bed.
Another important thing: giving out a Promotion Mission is a very weird thing for a group to do unless it directly involves someone else getting smashed.
To be clearer: Let’s say that you’re helping the Sashes take down the Lampblacks. I’d argue that just because you’re being super helpful to the Sashes does not mean that you are worth a Promotion.
Either, you’ve done so much damage to the Lampblacks that they’re now vulnerable to a Takeover, and so you take over their shit with the Sashes blessing, or you have made yourself so incredibly vital to the Sashes that they are willing to give you turf, make you equal to them, so that they can keep you on friendly terms.
(or alternatively, you are so freaking fearsome that they are like: “Yeah, yeah, take these businesses, don’t hurt us, it’s cool, right? We’re cool?”)
Turf is strictly zero-sum in Duskwall. Somebody’s losing something when you ascend.
(Alternatively, if a group is fat with turf, it might be possible for a Promotion mission to represent you getting some of their turf.)
Thanks James Stuart, those examples help.
Great ideas here